Tracy Balzer–Spiritual Direction

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Overview

 Today on the podcast, I had the real joy of talking to Tracy Balzer. Tracy is an author, speaker and guide. She’s written Thin Places, A Listening Life, and Permission to Ponder, and releasing this June A Journey of Sea and Stone. It’s available for pre-order now, so if you’d like, go ahead and order a copy from your favorite book store. In addition to all of that, Tracy is the director of Christian formation at John Brown University and serves as a spiritual director. She describes her calling as a calling to listen to God and people to God and people, using the tool of spiritual direction. In today’s conversation we talk, of course, about spiritual direction—what that is, its role in our lives and some ways that we can use that even if there isn’t a physical person that we can talk to. She recommends some great resources that we’ll link to in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Tracy Balzer, Director of Christian Formation at John Brown University. Spiritual Director. Author. Speaker. Guide.

Tracy Balzer is the author of Thin Places: An Evangelical Journey Into Celtic Christianity (Leafwood); A Listening Life (Pinyon); and Permission to Ponder: Contemplative Wisdom for the Spiritually Distracted (Leafwood). Her new book, A Journey of Sea and Stone: How Holy Places Guide and Renew Us (Broadleaf) will be released in June 2021.

Her passion for Celtic and contemplative spirituality is shared in her writing, speaking, and her leadership of pilgrimages to the Isle of Iona, Scotland — a beloved, remote and holy place she has visited more than a dozen times.  Tracy has a deep love in her heart for all things British, from the works of Jane Austen and the charming villages of the Cotswolds in England, to St. Patrick’s country in Northern Ireland and the dramatic Highlands of Scotland.  Add a scone and a wee cuppa to any of those places, and she’d say her life was nearly perfect.

Tracy’s ministry has been characterized by her calling to listen to God and listen to people.  She is a trained spiritual director, an oblate at Subiaco Abbey, and is a leader of silent retreats.  In her own spare time, she is an avid calligrapher with a passion for all things ink and paper, and loves discussing movies and pop culture with an eye for creative and redemptive spiritual truth.

Tracy is married to Cary, and they live in Siloam Springs, Arkansas.  Together they have two married daughters, and one granddaughter, Lizzy Iona.  She has served as director of Christian Formation and assistant professor at John Brown University for the last 25 years.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone, welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast, I had the real joy of talking to Tracy Balzer. Tracy is author, speaker and guide. She’s written Thin Places, A Listening Life, Permission to Ponder and releasing this June, A Journey of Sea and Stones. It’s available for pre order now. So, if you would like, go ahead and order a copy from your favorite bookstore.

Heidi Wilcox:
In addition to all of that, Tracy is the Director of Christian Formation at John Brown University, and serves as a spiritual director. She describes her calling as a calling to listen to God and people using the tool of spiritual direction.

Heidi Wilcox:
In today’s conversation, we talk about, of course, spiritual direction, what that is, its role in our lives, and some ways that we can use that even if there isn’t a physical person that we can talk to. She recommends some great resources that we’ll link to in the show notes. Without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Tracy.

Heidi Wilcox:
Well, I really appreciate that Winfield introduced us. That was a really great-

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, me too. Bless him.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How did you get to know him?

Tracy Balzer:
We don’t even know each other, really. This is just the wonderful world of social media. I honestly don’t know. I think maybe I picked up one of his books, and then followed him, and then he noticed that I do things on Iona, and that seemed to interest him. Then we chatted a little bit. You know how that goes, which I just think it’s fantastic. If you at all speak the language of StrengthsQuest, I’m a connectedness person. So, I love finding connections that people have. Ever since then we’ve just very casually connected on social media.

Heidi Wilcox:
So you guys have never met.

Tracy Balzer:
No, we’ve never met-

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s awesome because Winfield introduced us to connect us. I assumed you guys went way back.

Tracy Balzer:
Yes, we’re such good friends. We’ve grown up together, no, no, no. Also, he was so kind, he wrote an endorsement for my upcoming book, which we’ve never even met, and he went ahead and did that. So, that was very kind.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s really funny, because when I got your introduction from him, like I said, I was like, “Oh, wow, this is awesome.” And it is awesome. I just assumed that there had been a physical meeting not just on social media, but that’s really cool.

Tracy Balzer:
Well, I love it, but he somehow communicated, maybe a stronger connection than we have, because I will take it.

Heidi Wilcox:
I love that.

Tracy Balzer:
He’s definitely the kind of person that I would love to be able to sit down, really the three of us, if we could sit down and have coffee, that would just be so nice.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wouldn’t it? I would love that.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
If we ever get to travel again, we hope-

Tracy Balzer:
Yes, if we ever get to travel again.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I know. Tell me a little bit about your faith journey.

Tracy Balzer:
Sure. Well, I am one of those people… I’ll be really upfront, I’m going to turn 60 this year. So that needs to give your listeners some context of my life and faith journey, but I really am one of those people who were, by God’s grace have just followed Jesus all of my life, as long as I can remember. Even though I didn’t really grow up in a family that was particularly a discipling kind of family, it was a rather broken family and we had a lot of stress in our family, but I came to know the Lord through Vacation Bible School at the church down the street and just being, I think, a very compliant type of person. I have been pretty eager to be as obedient as possible throughout my life.

Tracy Balzer:
I’m not a big risk taker, I don’t tend to push the boundaries. I’ve been a pretty good girl all my life, but that has only been because the Lord has brought into my life, so many people who have helped me, and who have challenged me to know what a life of faith really looks like. I would say that a huge part of my faith formation was being part of a healthy youth group in high school. But, the big decision was choosing to go to a Christian University.

Tracy Balzer:
I attended Seattle Pacific University in Seattle, Washington. That just is really where I was challenged to integrate my faith with my learning. It really is what put into my heart and mind a vocational calling to serve in that same capacity one day, and my husband too, we met in college and both of us just were so changed and challenged by our experience at a Christian university that we are pretty eager to do the same, to participate in that kind of educational ministry one day ourselves.

Tracy Balzer:
Here we are years and years later, we have served going on 25 years at John Brown University, which is a school that would be very similar, even though our culture is different, being in more rural Northwest Arkansas, is very different than the Seattle area. But John Brown University has about 1200 undergrad students and I’ve served there as the Director of Christian Formation for 25 years, and my husband has taught theology. So, here we are, that’s been the way our faith has been demonstrated or acted out in an employment situation, capacity.

Tracy Balzer:
But then my faith has also been shaped by so many other things. We can talk about that, but that kind of gives you a quick sketch of what life and work has looked like from a faith perspective.

Heidi Wilcox:
I love that. Thank you. What does being the director of Christian formation mean? What do you do?

Tracy Balzer:
You know what’s been so great about my job, is that it means something different every year. That would be the understatement of the world, given the last year that we’ve gone through with COVID, it really has changed this year. But what it has really meant is that I’ve kind of… The most basic sense would be I would be an assistant chaplain, because we have had a chaplain who oversees all of our formation initiatives on campus, but I really come right alongside with all of that. Our chapel program, any kinds of worship opportunities, I teach a little bit, I work with students one on one in spiritual direction. I get to do a lot of really interesting relational ministry. It’s great.

Heidi Wilcox:
It sounds like it. One thing I read about you, you described your calling as a calling to listen to God and people. How did you experience that calling, and how did you know it was a calling?

Tracy Balzer:
Ooh, that is a helpful question, because it is one that I have felt quite confident in for many, many years. I think it’s just because, as I implied earlier, I’ve had a lot of people helping me in my faith journey, and I think I learned from others, from other mentors and spiritual directors, and professors and pastors, that listening is so important in ministry.

Tracy Balzer:
I was blessed and encouraged in my faith by people who listened to me and who are willing to ask me hard questions. Then also challenged by some really key writers and teachers of the importance of listening to God. Even as I might be sitting with a student, I want to listen to them, but I want to simultaneously listen to what the Lord is saying through them and to me.

Tracy Balzer:
I think it’s an important skill for all of us to have. We can so easily be distracted and misled by our own thoughts and by our own ways of perceiving life, and I just want to know how Jesus thinks about things, right? How Jesus… What he has to say. I have found myself in recent days with so much chaos and upheaval in our country, thinking, have we completely lost touch with what Jesus has to say about things? That’s a question I have to ask myself.

Heidi Wilcox:
For real. What you talk about with the listening to other people, and being present with them, but also, listening to what God has to say to you and through you, is that how you talk about spiritual direction?

Tracy Balzer:
Absolutely. Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay, so let’s talk about that. What is spiritual direction?

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah. When a student comes to me or anyone comes to me and they seem interested in some sort of mentoring or relationship or a spiritual direction relationship, I let them know that what I feel called to do is to help them listen to the voice of God in their life. I’m not only listening to them, and listening to God, I want to help them learn to do that, I want to help them to connect with the voice of God in their own life. Spiritual direction to me is just sort of a fancy way of saying, let’s get together and talk about where are you seeing God at work? Where are you sensing god’s leading? How is he speaking to you in scripture, or in the voices of wise people, or are you feeling like his voice is silent? Let’s talk about that.

Tracy Balzer:
I think we too often feel like, those kinds of questions are luxurious questions, like we shouldn’t take time for that, we’ve got too much to do in our lives. But really, all of our doing needs to be informed by what we’re hearing. That’s what I hope happens in spiritual direction.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’ve done spiritual direction a tiny bit with somebody here. But I guess, how does… I know, but I guess I’m thinking about the people who may be listening who haven’t done it and don’t know exactly how it works. Could you… I’m assuming every session isn’t the same, but could you talk a little bit about how you listen and how you hear God in these sessions?

Tracy Balzer:
Well, one thing that is important, and I confess, I’m not always really good at this, because working with students might be a little bit different. I think I do adjust the way I do spiritual direction with students compared to how I might do it with older adults, because students are so relational, and they come into my office, they just want to chat and laugh and tell stories, but really, a spiritual direction session always needs to begin with silence, in best practices in my mind, just because we have so much noise going on in our lives and our external and internal landscapes, there’s just so much going on.

Tracy Balzer:
I recognize that I can’t begin to listen to God or to someone else until I’m just quiet for a while. I always invite a directee or someone coming for spiritual direction to just, let’s just sit and be quiet for a few moments and invite the Holy Spirit to open our ears so that we can hear. I’ve already forgotten your question, Heidi.

Heidi Wilcox:
No, you’re great. I’m just wondering what the session-

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, what the session would look like.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Tracy Balzer:
Yes. We always… I intend to start with that silent time and maybe with a prayer or a psalm, I think that just grounds us, to get us to a place again, where we’re listening. Then it really is my goal as the spiritual director, to ask the directee some key questions. Again, I feel like when a trained, sensitive spiritual director is able to ask good questions to a directee, it’s a real gift to them. Because hardly anybody ever asks us those kinds of questions, that help us really know, honestly, what’s going on inside and what we’re hearing from God.

Tracy Balzer:
Especially if our answers to those questions are not real great. I really want the person coming for spiritual direction to have the freedom to tell me the honest truth. I’m not interested in hearing just real, glossy answers, hyper spiritual answers to these questions. If you’re not hearing from God, I want to know about it, and that’s okay.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh good, because sometimes when I’ve done it, the person I was doing it with was great, but I did feel that pressure, just because I’m like, well, I’m supposed to be hearing something, I don’t know what I’m hearing. So, how do you know if you’ve heard God?

Tracy Balzer:
Honestly, sometimes that’s when I try to be real affirming to the person that I’m talking with. If they are just… Like, I want to know, what’s going on in their life? I feel like we have to be careful not to hyper spiritualize everything. What’s work like? What is school like? What are your friendships like? What are you seeing, and noticing around you? Because God speaks to us in such simple ways, sometimes. We make it so hard for ourselves, like it has to be some great epiphany, some great moment where the sky breaks open and gives us this great message. Yet, what we really need to do, and I hope that this happens in spiritual direction too, and in my teaching, is just to teach others how to pay attention, and how to just be alert to the truth that God speaks to us of his love and his intentions for us, that is all around us in creation, and in the people that we live with, who all bear the image of God, in addition to obviously, scripture that needs to be a primary place where that happens.

Tracy Balzer:
As a spiritual director, I hope I can also give a directee some guidance if scripture is tasting sort of dry in their mouth. Well, then let’s approach this in a different way. What I hope is that it opens up a directee to just experiencing God in ways that they have been closed off to, because it’s been too prescriptive for them. Maybe it’s been prescribed, maybe in their church, like, this is how you encounter God. Well, actually, we’re not going to put God in that kind of box, there’s so much more to experience with him. So, let’s talk about that, what does that look like?

Tracy Balzer:
Your question of how do we know when it’s God speaking? That’s part of what I really enjoy about spiritual direction is I love just affirming the directee when they just articulate some simple story or some simple experience, and I can say to them, “You realize, don’t you, that God is telling you how very much he loves you through that simple experience.” It’s like, “Oh, I didn’t realize that. I don’t know why I don’t notice that.” But we don’t, we do tend to make it harder than it is, I think.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, we definitely do that. As you were talking, you’ve explained it very well, and it seems more concrete than I’ve ever really thought about it before. It’s okay that it hasn’t been… At least in my head, and I think there is some vagueness to it as you work and listen, because it is kind of vague. What are the guardrails in spiritual direction? If somebody’s thinking about going and they’re like, but this other person is going to start speaking into my life in critical ways, what are the guardrails to keep me from being led astray?

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, and honestly, that’s a really important thing to consider, because there are all kinds of spiritual directors out there, formal and informal. We know, as we’ve learned about spiritual formation in recent generations, that we are constantly being formed, that whatever we’re listening to, or participating in, is making us who we are.

Tracy Balzer:
I do think that when we put our souls into the care of a spiritual director, it needs to be someone who is absolutely grounded in scripture. To me, that’s our biggest guardrail. If anything is said or suggested in a spiritual direction relationship, that does not line up with who Jesus is, who he says we are to be, of the essential commandments of scripture and the models that we have there, I just think that’s where the red flags really, really have to go up.

Tracy Balzer:
I’ve seen that in a lot of places where it gets… Whether it’s books or podcasts or speakers, where it gets quite relativistic, and I get really uncomfortable with that. If we’re talking about Christian spiritual formation, we are talking about being shaped into the image of Jesus. That who we’re talking about. That’s our biggest guardrail.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. How do we know when to seek out spiritual direction, and how do we find a person?

Tracy Balzer:
Well, this is the big dilemma, because, I do feel like I’m seeing more people getting trained in spiritual direction, which is refreshing. I think for the longest time, it’s just… It does tend to have its roots in the Catholic tradition, which has made it inaccessible for Protestants for a variety of reasons. There was a time where really, if you wanted a good spiritual direction, you really needed to go to a… I’m sorry, backup, if you wanted a good spiritual director, you needed to go to a monastery, because that’s where the deep tradition lies.

Tracy Balzer:
I did meet with a Catholic sister for a while because of that, but I feel like there are more really good Protestant programs that have been established for training. So, that’s good. But it is hard, like, what do I do? Google spiritual direction? Well, probably. You might as well.

Heidi Wilcox:
We Google everything else.

Tracy Balzer:
We Google everything else, so that’s a good place to start. There are organizations that make spiritual direction available. What’s great now is that, of course, COVID, or not, we can do spiritual direction over a screen, which doesn’t seem great, but it’s actually not too bad. I was a director for a woman in Poland for about a year, and we actually made that work. But I think, how does a person find a good spiritual director, and how do you know when? I don’t know. I’m just like, if you feel that tug, like I would like to learn more about what God is saying in my life, I think I need some help with that.

Tracy Balzer:
Not even in a therapeutics sense, but in a companioning sense. I really love the image of the two disciples walking on the road to Emmaus. Jesus is walking along with them, but they don’t realize it until later. I feel like spiritual direction is helping another person recognize that Jesus has been walking with us all the time, all along, and we can actually have a conversation with him and know that he is with us.

Tracy Balzer:
I think when that desire is there, then that’s when I just encourage anybody to pursue spiritual direction. Now, having said that, I will also say, for me personally, it’s been rare that I’ve actually had a person in the flesh to meet with it, because it’s been hard to find someone that I feel like is a really good match. But I’ve had-

Heidi Wilcox:
Even for me personally.

Tracy Balzer:
For me personally, yes. My first spiritual director was actually there in Wilmore, when we were there at Asbury Seminary, and that was a fantastic experience.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. What was this person’s name, if I can ask.

Tracy Balzer:
Yes, she has deep roots there and has gone on to be with the lord now, but her name is Margaret Therkelsen.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, I think I’ve heard of her.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, I’m sure she has a reputation there in Wilmore as being a great saint. She was a profound influence on my life. But other people who have served and I have met formally with other directors, but in the meantime, honestly, my spiritual directors have come through books. People who maybe aren’t even living anymore. But they have been really good at helping me listen to the voice of God because of what they have written. I think that there’s a lot of ways we can receive good spiritual direction, even if we don’t currently have the option of meeting with a person face-to-face.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, and we might not because of COVID, just because we’re like, there’s no one that we can connect with right now.

Tracy Balzer:
Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
What are some of the books that you would recommend, if we’re in that place?

Tracy Balzer:
The books that have meant a lot to me, have meant a lot only because of who their authors are. This is going to seem really… I don’t know if it’s going to be relatable, but I will say that… Maybe I should say there have been people that have been influential, who actually also happen to be writers and Lucy Shaw is one of those people. She is a poet, and a writer of a gazillion books, she is in her ’90s now, and it’s just one of the wisest, most attentive, contemplative people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

Tracy Balzer:
I have taken a class or two with her. Excuse me, we’ve connected in different ways over the years. She’s written endorsements for my books. But what she has written in the form of poetry has just been so influential in helping me pay attention to God. She has a new book of poetry called The Generosity that I would just so encourage anyone to pick up. I am not a person who knows or understands poetry. I feel like I’m only learning, but Lucy’s has always spoken to me because it is so contemplative, it is so attentive.

Tracy Balzer:
Her descriptions of how God makes himself known to us through his creation is just fantastic. That forces me to ask myself some questions, and respond in my own journal. That’s how, if I would say the process of spiritual direction happens with someone who I don’t meet with regularly, that’s how it happens, I read, and I respond, and I write, and I pray.

Tracy Balzer:
Really, I would say, there really isn’t any excuse for me or anyone to say we don’t have access to spiritual direction, because there’s so much good material out there to respond to in a way that helps us ponder the words of God, the voice of God, and Lucy has certainly served in that way for me.

Heidi Wilcox:
Definitely. You also, you’ve written several books, Thin Places, A Listening Life, Permission to Ponder and you have a new one coming out in June, A Journey of Sea and Stone: How Holy Places Renew and Guide Us. Would you tell us a little bit about your book?

Tracy Balzer:
Yes. The thing that is interesting, given our conversation is that this book, A Journey of Sea and Stone really is about spiritual direction.

Heidi Wilcox:
Really?

Tracy Balzer:
It is, but here is another way that it is rather unconventional spiritual direction, because it’s all about how an island has been a spiritual director for me, which sounds really bizarre. But, recently, I read… I wish I had it at my fingertips. I can find it, a quote by Eugene Peterson that talks about… I’m calling it up right now on my Instagram, it talks about how… Here it is. He says, “The Psalms showed me that imagination was a way to get inside the truth.” Then he continues by saying, “As I have often told my students, a metaphor is a verbal link between the invisible and the visible, between Heaven and Earth.”

Tracy Balzer:
The island of Iona which is just on the western coast of Scotland, it’s a holy place, a sacred place of great Christian history, and of incredible natural beauty has served as that metaphor for me. Iona is known as probably the ultimate thin place. My first book about thin places is about Iona. This most recent book is about all the things that Iona has taught me, how it has helped me to listen for the voice of God, in such a metaphorical way. In its beauty, in its history, it’s almost like a person has been leading me along, it’s just that I happen to be on an island.

Tracy Balzer:
I know it has done that for many people over the years. I have been there many, many times and I take people with me as much as I can to just be there in a very quiet, thin place. A thin place is known in the Celtic tradition as the place where the dividing line between Earth and Heaven is tissue paper thin. This book, the end of this very long answer is about the three spiritual direction questions that Iona has helped me to address. They are, where is God, who am I, and what do I have to offer the world?

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.

Tracy Balzer:
Those are questions that I ask my directees in maybe slightly different ways. But those are real key spiritual direction questions; where is God? Who am I? And what do I have to offer the world? That’s this new book, it is a collection of essays about my experiences on Iona, and how that island has helped me answer some of those questions or begin to answer some of those questions.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Could you answer one of those questions for us? You can pick whichever one of those questions that you would like.

Tracy Balzer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I have to think about this.

Heidi Wilcox:
It might be a little personal. So, I hope that’s okay.

Tracy Balzer:
No, no, no, mostly I’m thinking about what is helpful. This might seem a little bit redundant, but I am… The question of where is God is again-

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh no, because I have questions about that too, especially right now.

Tracy Balzer:
Right? Where is God? I am really thinking about this a lot. I’ve been thinking a lot and engaging a lot with… I don’t know if you know the author and artist Makoto Fujimura? He has recently come out, recently, very recently, like the last month with a book called Art and Faith: A Theology of Making. Basically, his work is helping us to remember that engaging in culture wars is not really effective, what we need to engage in is culture making, that we need to… Instead of a battle to be won, our culture is a garden to be tended.

Tracy Balzer:
I think when we ask the question, where is God? We’re also asking the question, and what do I have to offer the world? How can I be part of the renewal of all things, rather than the destruction of all things? How can I be part of God’s great kingdom project of bringing about the new creation? When I think about where is God and what Iona has taught me, is that it is again, learning how to pay closer attention to where he is, and what he is doing, through some of the things that we tend to just overlook.

Tracy Balzer:
Again, this is how Lucy has helped me too. I remember Lucy asking us one time in a retreat I was at, she said, “Look for the small things, don’t just look for the big things and what is God speaking to you through the small things, through creation.” Through the beauty of creation, that is right here and has not been changed by COVID, by the way. It is still around us.

Tracy Balzer:
I live in a beautiful part of Northwest Arkansas, in the countryside, and we’ve got lots of trees. If I would just stop and be reminded of the significance of trees, this starts to sound a little… I don’t know, a little unsubstantial, maybe, but it is contemplative, it is looking at what has been created, and remember that a tree is what we see in Psalm 1, that the person who is the faithful righteous person is like a tree that grows next to water and whose roots go down deep and whose leaves bear fruit in season. Which means that we don’t bear fruit all the time. Trees have a natural pattern of growth and life.

Tracy Balzer:
The trees outside my window right now, really don’t look that great, but they will in the spring. Where is God? I need to learn to look, and especially, when this time, which I will be honest, has been a very depressing time for me, it’s been really difficult to see what’s going on in the world on various levels. We are going to start up our classes here in a few weeks, but you know what, before we go on campus, we all have to get tested for COVID. This is just so unnatural.

Tracy Balzer:
Where do we look for God in the places that he is and always has been? Return to the truth of scripture, return to speaking the truth to each other in love, and just staying connected to what we know is true.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, and staying connected to what we know is true, I have found to be difficult sometimes, very difficult sometimes.

Tracy Balzer:
Tell me why that is, do you think? What has been difficult about that for you?

Heidi Wilcox:
I think it’s because… Excuse me, I think because COVID, for example, I feel pretty safe myself. But it’s just the overwhelmingness, how huge the problem is, and it seems so much bigger than… It can block out the truth that if I settle down and think and be calm, then I know the truth. But when I’m just all anxious, it blocks out the truth. When I talk to my husband, for example, he’s like, “But that probably isn’t going to happen, or whatever.” When I focus on what is true, versus what makes me really anxious, then I can see the truth. Does that make sense?

Tracy Balzer:
Oh, yeah. Also, this is one of the things that we learn in spiritual direction, of course, is that we’re all different. So, we all process this differently. You might feel this level of anxiety, much more acutely than your husband, who’s a different person. That’s certainly true in our house, my husband is able just to sail through and he’s like, how do you not get totally overwhelmed by this?

Tracy Balzer:
It’s funny knowing that you’re there in Wilmore, I’m here in Siloam Springs, we really are quite removed from the worst things going on in the world. But we’re so connected because of technology. That makes it hard to know. What is the balance between knowing and caring about the pain of the world, and recognizing that I can’t carry it all?

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, I know, I’ve just had to stop listening to the news. I listened to a little snippet, like a 15 minute podcast that keeps to be updated in the morning. Then there’s a radio show I listen to, and that has news breaks on it, and that is pretty much it, because I’m like I know enough. Between that and talking to my husband, who also keeps up as well, I’m like, this is enough. This is all I can handle.

Tracy Balzer:
Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
Because early on, I was listening to a lot of news because I felt like it was my duty to absolutely know what was happening, and it still is, but I’m like I cannot know as much as I was knowing.

Tracy Balzer:
I completely identify with that sense of responsibility. Like I should understand what’s going on in the world. I don’t know if this was true for you, but I think that was especially heavy over the summer when racial tensions were just so high. I wasn’t sure I was being a compassionate person if I didn’t keep up with that constantly, even though there literally was not a thing I could do about it, and I think also I feel the responsibility as an educator, I need to be able to speak about this to my students. We just have to recognize our limits. We cannot carry all of this.

Heidi Wilcox:
No. I think I heard on a podcast, I forget which one, so, I can’t give them credit, but they were talking about how the news, we know what’s happening not just all across our state or area that we’re in, but we know what’s happening in Australia today because it’s all available. The podcaster was saying that we were only really created to know what was happening in our community, which depending on where you live, your community size can vary. But even in large cities, you have your neighborhood kind of area.

Tracy Balzer:
That’s so refreshing. We can do that.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I can handle what’s happening in my town.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah. I have recognized in myself such an elevated sense of anxiety that is directly related to how much news I consume.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Tracy Balzer:
Directly related to… I wrestle with this, wanting to be responsible and knowing what’s going on in the world. But then I’ve realized that the more I do that, the more I take in information about things that I can actually do nothing about, that, that just increases my anxiety level. Like you were saying earlier, Heidi, it makes it harder to know what is true.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Go ahead, I’m sorry. I’m just thinking along with you.

Tracy Balzer:
I know, it is so hard for me to learn this, I don’t know why it’s so hard for me to learn this, but on the mornings when I force myself to first listen to what is true, in the form of the practice of Lectio Divina, listening to scripture, being quiet and still, reorienting myself. On those mornings, I am much better equipped to move into the day and not be overwhelmed by all the messages that I’m being bombarded with.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. I think it was November that I was… I wasn’t literally going over the edge, as far as you needed to call the white coats, and I was-

Tracy Balzer:
Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
But I was not okay, and still, sometimes I wonder if I’m okay. But I’ve come back my news and my husband was very gracious. He said, “Heidi, you really have got to stop.” Because I would talk to my mom, and I’d be like, “Mom, are you guys wearing your masks? Are you doing all this? Don’t go anywhere, don’t do anything.” I was really being… There are places for those conversations, but I was really being quite annoying and obnoxious and unkind about it, out of the fear that was in my heart.

Heidi Wilcox:
I stopped listening to the news as much, because as my husband said, he was like, “You know the right thing to do, so listening to all of that isn’t going to change your actions. It just upsets you. Just keep doing what you’re doing, let everybody else do what they’re doing and stop taking on the responsibility for everybody.”

Tracy Balzer:
This is probably completely aside from the purpose of your podcasts here, but-

Heidi Wilcox:
No, I love it.

Tracy Balzer:
… oh, no, I can’t remember what I was going to say.

Heidi Wilcox:
We were talking about news. Yeah.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, and what you’re able to… It’ll come back to me, if it does. If it’s important, it’ll come back.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. I want to know about… Go ahead.

Tracy Balzer:
No, no, no, you go.

Heidi Wilcox:
You were likely finishing up your book, A Journey of Sea and Stone during the pandemic is that-

Tracy Balzer:
Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay, so how did that affect your work and what you were writing about?

Tracy Balzer:
I actually-

Heidi Wilcox:
Or did it? Because it was about a completely different thing, changed your thought processes or anything?

Tracy Balzer:
The interesting thing, I think the final manuscript was due in February. So it was just before everything cut loose. But then, there’s lots of editing that comes after that, and you have to ask yourself, should we mention something about the pandemic? I never really did go back in and write anything about the pandemic, but interestingly enough, I don’t know if you know, Scott Erickson and his artwork.

Heidi Wilcox:
I don’t.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, he would be worth looking at. I bet Winfield knows who he is, but he ended up writing the foreword for my book, and that just happened in the last month. So, he was able to address it, I think in a helpful way.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yeah.

Tracy Balzer:
But as I was still, even though the manuscript’s was done in February, there’s still a lot of work to do month by month, and editing and such. How it affected me, was it just allowed me to escape a little bit, to be honest. That is one of the things that people who go to Iona with me, I think we all feel a little bit like, when we go, it is a genuine escape. You feel a little bit like you’re walking into Narnia. But you recognize that it’s not permanent, we’re not escaping permanently, but it is to give us a sense of what life is to be like, and can be like, and helps us hopefully bring back to our regular busy lives some of the things that we learn there.

Tracy Balzer:
I think even in the midst of COVID, and lock down and I have the same fears as you do for my in laws, who are elderly, it does help me to re-enter that sacred space of being alone with God and letting his beauty remind me of who he is, getting a clearer vision of what it means to live a life of faith, walking with Jesus, all of those very basic things. This is when it counts, is when life gets hard. We have seen this throughout history, that when the believers, when the church goes through a really hard time, this is when our faith is tested, and I think that’s what we’re in the middle of.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely in many, many ways.

Tracy Balzer:
I don’t like it, by the way.

Heidi Wilcox:
No, I don’t like it either.

Tracy Balzer:
That does not make it a good idea in my way of thinking, but I know that it’s true. I know that I have lived a life that has been relatively free of suffering, and that has not been the pattern throughout history.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that is for sure. When we entered the pandemic last March, almost a year ago now, people had to be still in ways that they hadn’t had to before. But then we all started learning, as we needed to, how to continue to do things and continue to live. But even in that time of stillness, at least for me, it didn’t seem necessarily still, because I was working from home, and it still sometimes felt like it was a little bit different, but that there was still kind of this hurry still.

Heidi Wilcox:
Then also, there was, like on Instagram, different things, people are baking bread and remodeling their houses and cooking all sorts of things. I’m looking at it going, I’m still working 40 hours a week, even though I’m not in the same place, and now I’m supposed to bake bread and do all these things too? I guess my question is, even during that time, there was still the temptation to hustle in ways that were exhausting. How do we still have the listening life, no matter what is going on?

Tracy Balzer:
I have, very intentionally, used this time, not because I felt the pressure to, but because all of a sudden, I saw a window of opportunity to create a little sanctuary for myself.

Heidi Wilcox:
Really?

Tracy Balzer:
I realized that this is a real luxury. My husband and I are empty nesters now, so the house that once had four people living in it only has two. We have my younger daughter’s bedroom, that for years I said, oh one day that’s going to be an office for me, not realizing that I would actually need it and use it. Because even though on our campus, we are meeting in person, we have the freedom to work from home. My husband does have a chronic disease, he has MS, and so we’re being especially careful.

Tracy Balzer:
I really only go into the office… When class is in session, I really only go in the office a couple of days a week. Most of my work is still done here remotely at home, and it works just fine, actually. I took the time to make my office, with my husband’s help, a place that I really enjoy being, and a place that feels, even though it’s my work place and my computer setup, I’ve actually just recreated a little Iona space for me. I’ve used all those soothing sea colors and images and paintings that I’ve collected over the years and books.

Tracy Balzer:
All that is to say is how do we find a place to listen? How do we find a way to do it when you’re working 40 hours? Yeah, I never got on to the whole sour dough bread thing. But I think it is a good time to ask yourself okay, but what would be helpful for me? What would help me care for myself a little bit? Do I need to create a space for myself? Do I need to, like you said, you did very wisely, cut out the news for a while. Simple things that I have not done well, especially as we’re getting into the winter months of, someone said the other day, just getting 30 minutes of sunshine every day would do wonders for your mental health.

Tracy Balzer:
I think, walking and being outside is a wonderful way to learn how to listen because you’re also forced to look at your surroundings and see what’s going on. I think it does take a lot of intentional re-imagining our lives to see where are the life giving places? To give ourselves permission to lean into those, and knowing that our 40 hours of work is not going to be as productive if we’re falling apart. Our relationships are not going to be healthy if we’re falling apart.

Tracy Balzer:
I feel like I’m falling apart, just so you know, Heidi, you’re not alone. I think this is true for a lot of people, we need to be honest about this too. Every day I ask myself, okay, what kind of battle that I’m fighting here. How can I lean into what is life giving, and what is true, and what is beautiful? How can I remind myself that I am not alone in this, that Jesus walks before me, behind me, beside me, stands above me, carries me below. All of those just things that just take a lot of intentional effort, I’m afraid.

Heidi Wilcox:
It doesn’t come naturally, you have to cultivate that and take time for it.

Tracy Balzer:
A number of people have said, both secular and spiritual people have said, we’re not actually sure we want to go back to what is normal, what we were doing before. Because what we’re recognizing is that, our lives are crazy. Who do we think we are that we can keep up this pace and not lose our souls?

Heidi Wilcox:
Right. Because that’s what I was thinking when you said to cultivate what matters? It’s not always what you enjoy, we all have to do things we don’t enjoy, but that, what is life giving to you? I was thinking that was always the question, we just didn’t take the time to ask it before.

Tracy Balzer:
Right. Again, I think going back to what we were saying earlier, is to recognize our limitations. There is no need to be limited.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Tracy Balzer:
I don’t know why, in our Western American Christianity, we’ve just gotten this message somehow that we have to be and do everything. A lot of wise people have been speaking against that in recent years, and I think that’s especially becoming true. It’s in our face right now.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely. Before we wrap this up, I want to ask about your podcast of Listening Life. Because when I looked at it, it’s a short podcast that leads listeners through Lectio Divina, which-

Tracy Balzer:
Exactly.

Heidi Wilcox:
… is a quiet space that we’ve been talking about.

Tracy Balzer:
It does indeed, yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m hoping you’re going to continue to do that. If I can add pressure when we’ve been talking about not adding pressure-

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, no, no, no. Only just yesterday, I thought, oh, I’ve really got to contact our radio station manager and let him know, I really do want to come in and do more of those. I’ve really stepped back in the second half of what it was our fall semester, and just stopped recording. What’s really nice is they let me do it whenever I want. So, it’s great.

Heidi Wilcox:
That is nice.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah, there’s no real schedule, but it is time to add some new episodes on there. It’s a great compliment to me to hear a friend say, “Oh, I listen to Tracy’s podcast as I’m going to sleep at night.” Because it’s like, hey, if that helps you to be at peace as you come to the end of the day, then do it. But it really is just each episode, I guess, would be like maybe 11 minutes long. I choose… Usually there’s a series of 10 or 12. I use a lot of Psalms, because I just think that the Psalms speak to us, especially in this time so profoundly and help us pray when we don’t know how to pray.

Tracy Balzer:
But the Psalms and the gospels are excellent passages for Lectio Divina, for listening to a passage several times and giving yourself some silent space in between to let them just really settle in. My book, Permission to Ponder is really all about that process, and just how to let the… As Robert Mulholland, a former professor at Asbury Seminary, taught us in his book, that scripture needs to be not merely informative, it needs to be formative. We need to be transformed by it, not just gain information.

Tracy Balzer:
That ancient Benedictine practice of Lectio Divina, it really helps do that. Especially for people who are familiar with it, I think it also helps to listen to someone lead you through it. You don’t have to worry about a thing, just join in and settle in and let the scriptures speak to you. If we ever want to know how to listen for God’s voice, maybe that’s what we need to do.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I really enjoyed it when I was listening to a couple of episodes as I prepared for this podcast. When I was asking about your podcast to you, it came across as kind of a should, I wasn’t trying to should you. It was more asking, because I was hoping that there would be future episodes.

Tracy Balzer:
Oh, thank you. I mean, there’s so much scripture out there that we need to listen to. I think we could keep going for quite a while. I’m just so fortunate that JBU has a nationally recognized Christian radio station and our studio is just down the street. So, it couldn’t be easier. I just pop in and they do all the hard work for me. So, it’s really nice.

Heidi Wilcox:
Nice. We’ve come to the end of our time. I feel like we’re just kind of getting started and can keep going. Before we wrap it up, is there anything else that you want to talk about that we haven’t talked about yet?

Tracy Balzer:
Oh my goodness. No, but Heidi, if we want to talk some more, you know where I am. I’d be happy to jump in and do this again, or you and I can have our own little chat.

Heidi Wilcox:
I would love that.

Tracy Balzer:
Yeah. I’m at your service.

Heidi Wilcox:
Aww, thank you. I do have one last question for you before we officially close, and we ask everybody this question.

Tracy Balzer:
Oh, good.

Heidi Wilcox:
Because the show is called The Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Tracy Balzer:
If we are honest, and just from our conversation here, I’m guessing that you would say something similar. I don’t really feel like I am thriving right now. I feel a little bit like I’m just surviving, and I don’t like that. But I know that it’s temporary. Again, that idea of seasons, this is a season. I really do believe that we will see it come to an end, and that there’s something good that God is doing, even in the midst of all this. He’s not causing this, but he is a redeemer, and I am really looking forward to the way that we’re going to see some amazing things come from this time.

Tracy Balzer:
Maybe though I’m not thriving, I would say my survival, what I’m doing to survive, really is, I have another podcast to commend to your listeners, and maybe you’ve heard of it, but it’s called Pray-as-you-go. I don’t actually think that’s a great title, but I’m sure they won’t mind me saying that. Pray-as-you-go is hosted by the Jesuits.

Tracy Balzer:
For your Protestant listeners, you would notice now and then a little bit of Catholic elements to it, like they might say, “And today is the feast of St. Bernard.” We don’t use that language so much in Protestantism, but it is a beautiful… It’s rather similar to what I do in The Listening Life. It’s a beautiful, guided meditation through scripture, with some reflective questions that always starts out with a little bit of music and ends with glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit at the end.

Tracy Balzer:
For me, what makes it even better, it’s British. So, there’s lovely voices, just lovely readers. What could be better than that? That really is something extra that both my husband and I have enjoyed for years, and it’s something even just this morning, that really I heard God’s voice in that, that time, I really did. That’s Pray-as-you-go, you can find it, it’s an app, it’s free, and I heartily recommend it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay, that sounds lovely, and we’ll link it all in the show notes, but I wrote it down because I definitely want to check it out as well.

Tracy Balzer:
Good.

Heidi Wilcox:
So, Tracy, thank you so much for our conversation. This has been lovely. I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve learned so much from you, just picked up different things about how to cultivate a life of listening from talking to you today. I saw a heron on the way to work yesterday morning, and just talking to you I’m like, oh yeah, God helped me to see that. That just was there and it was such… I don’t usually see them, it was such a blessing yesterday.

Tracy Balzer:
Excellent. That’s just wonderful. I love the image of that. We have herons up here. My in laws have a lake house and we go up there and we watch for those herons, we’ve watched for them for years. Anytime you see something majestic like that, we just have to stop and say thank you, lord, for that beauty. That needs to help offset the ugliness that we’re seeing right now.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely. Thank you for taking the time-

Tracy Balzer:
It’s my pleasure, Heidi.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Tracy Balzer:
All right. Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone, and thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Tracy. I don’t know about you, but I really found our conversation to be a refreshing breath as I thought about starting to look for ways that God is already working in my life, even in the midst of this difficult time. I hope it provided some hope and insight for you as well. Just really grateful for Tracy, for who she is, and the gift that she and her work are to the world. If you haven’t already, you can follow Asbury Seminary in all the places; on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @AsburySeminary. Until next time, go do something that helps you thrive.

Tracy Balzer is the author of Thin Places: An Evangelical Journey Into Celtic Christianity (Leafwood); A Listening Life (Pinyon); and Permission to Ponder: Contemplative Wisdom for the Spiritually Distracted (Leafwood). Her new book, A Journey of Sea and Stone: How Holy Places Guide and Renew Us (Broadleaf) will be released in June 2021.

Her passion for Celtic and contemplative spirituality is shared in her writing, speaking, and her leadership of pilgrimages to the Isle of Iona, Scotland — a beloved, remote and holy place she has visited more than a dozen times.  Tracy has a deep love in her heart for all things British, from the works of Jane Austen and the charming villages of the Cotswolds in England, to St. Patrick’s country in Northern Ireland and the dramatic Highlands of Scotland.  Add a scone and a wee cuppa to any of those places, and she’d say her life was nearly perfect.

Tracy’s ministry has been characterized by her calling to listen to God and listen to people.  She is a trained spiritual director, an oblate at Subiaco Abbey, and is a leader of silent retreats.  In her own spare time, she is an avid calligrapher with a passion for all things ink and paper, and loves discussing movies and pop culture with an eye for creative and redemptive spiritual truth.

Tracy is married to Cary, and they live in Siloam Springs, Arkansas.  Together they have two married daughters, and one granddaughter, Lizzy Iona.  She has served as director of Christian Formation and assistant professor at John Brown University for the last 25 years.