A Conversation with Counseling Faculty

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Overview

Today on the podcast I got to talk to three of the counseling faculty at Asbury Seminary, Dr. Toddy Holeman, Dr. Steve Stratton and Dr. Laklieshia Izzard. We talked about the ways that 2020 has affected all of our mental health, ways we can practice self-care and God care, how we can incorporate that into our daily lives and some signs and symptoms when it’s time to look to a counselor to help us with our mental health. They even offer some online options so that you can find the help you need in the area you live. I’m so grateful for today’s conversation and I hope you enjoy it as well.

Let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Dr. Steve Stratton, Professor of Counseling and Pastoral Care

Stephen P. Stratton, Ph.D., is Professor of Counseling and Pastoral Care and a licensed psychologist (KY) and counselor educator.  Previous to his full-time appointment at Asbury Theological Seminary in 2006, he served as an adjunct professor at Asbury University, where he was the Director of the Center for Counseling for 18 years.  He is a Health Service Provider/Supervisor for the Kentucky Board of Psychology.

Dr. Stratton holds membership and leadership positions in both counseling and psychology professional guilds, and he regularly presents at the state, national and international conferences of these organizations.  He is currently Vice President for the Kentucky chapter of the Association for Spiritual, Ethical, and Religious Values In Counseling (KY-ASERVIC).  He also serves as an At-large member of the Board for the Christian Association for Psychological Studies (CAPS). He is a trainer and seminar director for the Prepare-Enrich Inventory (Life Innovations, Inc.) since 2010, and he is a trained facilitator of Immunity to Change workshops (Minds at Work, Inc.) since 2013.

Dr. Stratton has provided psychological services to adolescents and adults in hospitals, community mental health agencies, pastoral settings, and college and university centers since 1983.  Dr. Stratton has special interest and training in the areas of human relational attachments, sexual/gender identity, contemplative prayer, and the integration of counseling and orthodox Christianity.

He is part of a research team investigating the experience of sexual minorities at faith-based colleges and universities.  The book based on this research, Listening to Sexual Minorities: A Study of Faith and Sexual Identity on Christian College Campuses was published in 2018.  He is a research affiliate with the Sexual and Gender Identity Institute, where he currently helps to facilitate a longitudinal study linventigating the experience of students at Christian colleges and universities across the United States who are navigating faith and gender identity.   He also serves on the Division 36 (Psychology of Religion and Spirituality) LGBTQ Task Force at the American Psychological Association.

In 2017, he received the “Distinguished Member Award” for his service in teaching, research, and pastoral leadership for CAPS.  In 2012, Dr. Stratton was presented the “Excellence in Teaching and Learning Award” by Asbury Theological Seminary for “consistent excellence in the classroom.”  In 2010, he was named “Psychologist of the Year” by the Kentucky Psychological Association for “his innovative teaching and outstanding scientist-practitioner model[ing]” in the state.

He is married to Carol (Lehikoinen) Stratton, and they enjoy connections with their adult daughter, son and daughter-in-law.  The Strattons are active in relational trainings, experiential worship, and contemplative prayer ministries.  They are leaders in worship and laity training at Nicholasville United Methodist Church.

Dr. Virginia "Toddy" Holeman
Professor of Counseling, Asbury Seminary

Dr. Virginia Todd Holeman (Toddy) is professor of Counseling. She has taught at Asbury Theological Seminary since 1995.

Dr. Holeman received a Ph.D. at Kent State University. At Asbury Seminary, she has served as associate dean of the School of Theology (1999-2004); acting dean (2004-2005); and has previously served as chair of the Counseling and Pastoral Care Department. She was the 2003-2004 recipient of the seminary’s Excellence in Distance Learning Teaching Award. She is a licensed professional clinical counselor and a licensed marriage and family therapist in Kentucky. Dr. Holeman is the past president of the Kentucky Association for Marriage and Family Therapy.

She has earned several grant awards, including a $42,020 grant titled “Making the Grade: Enhancing Learning Through Evaluation from the Wabash Center for Teaching and Learning in Theological Education”.

Dr. Holeman was also a member of the Wabash Center Teaching and Learning Colloquy for Mid-Career Theological Faculty (2007-2008) and a Wabash Workshop Teaching Scholar (1998).She has published several books, including her most recent, Theology for Better Counseling: Trinitarian Reflections for Healing and Formation(IVP Academic, 2012), which was selected as a CAPS Book (Christian Association for Psychological Studies). Dr. Holeman’s research interests include interpersonal forgiveness, repentance and reconciliation, counselor education and supervision, and integration of psychology and counseling.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard
Associate Professor of Counseling, Asbury Seminary

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard is an Associate Professor of Counseling at Asbury Theological Seminary for the Orlando/Global Campus. Dr. Izzard is a Licensed Professional Counselor in Georgia, a National Certified Counselor, an Approved Clinical Supervisor and a Tricare Mental Health Counselor. Dr Izzard is in virtual private practice with service areas of counseling, supervision, training, and mentorship. Dr. Izzard has more than 15 years of community mental health counseling experience. Dr. Izzard has served as a Founding President and Past Leadership Council Chair for the American Counseling Association of Georgia (ACA of Georgia). Dr. Izzard’s presidential term was one of history making by strategically leading the organization in its first full year of Professional Development, Leadership Development, Counselor Support, Advocacy, Service, and Community Collaboration.

Dr Izzard serves on the board of directors and is a founding member of the diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) committee for National Alliance of Mental Illness (NAMI) Georgia. Dr. Izzard made history again by coordinating NAMI Georgia’s DEI first virtual event series with a focus on BIPOC communities, diversity, and mental health. Dr. Izzard serves as mentor for the American Counseling Association with the ACAMP program, mentoring new counseling professionals. Dr. Izzard serves as mentor for the American Psychological Association in collaboration with the National Board of Certified Counselors IMFP program mentoring counseling students of color.

Dr. Izzard has several faith integration publications including her own mental health treatment approach Faith Inspiration Therapy (FIT) which has shown positive outcomes with US Veterans with PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, and Anger Issues. Dr Izzard obtained her doctoral degree in Counselor Education and Supervision from Argosy University Sarasota and a Masters’ Degree in Mental Health Counseling from North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast, I got to talk to three of the counseling faculty at Asbury Seminary, Dr. Toddy Holeman, Dr. Steve Stratton, and Dr. Laklieshia Izzard.

Heidi Wilcox:
We talked about the ways that 2020 has affected all of our mental health, some ways that we can practice self care and God care, how we can incorporate that into our daily lives, even though our routine may still be constantly changing, and some signs and symptoms when it’s time to look to another person, a counselor, to help us with our mental health. They even offer some online options so that you can find the help that you need in the area that you live. I’m so grateful for today’s conversation, and I hope you enjoy it as well. Let’s listen.

Heidi Wilcox:
Thank you all so much for being part of the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast today. I heard your community conversation in Chapel, which I’ll link to in the show notes that will be below the show. I thought we really must have three of our counseling faculty on the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast, so Dr. Stratton and Dr. Izzard and Dr. Holeman, thank you so much for joining me today. I’ve really been looking forward to this conversation about mental health, how we can practice self care, and what to look for in ourselves to know when counseling may need to be part of that, so thank you for taking the time to be on the show today.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Glad to be here.

Heidi Wilcox:
Before we jump right into questions, I’d like to go around and give you all an opportunity to introduce yourselves and give some of your areas of expertise. Nobody will be able to see you, so partly so we learn to recognize who’s talking with the voices, but also just so we know who we’re chatting with today. If we could start with you, Dr. Stratton, and then Dr. Holeman, and Dr. Izzard, that would be great.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
I am a Professor of counseling and pastoral care here at the Seminary. I’ve been here for a long time, at least in Wilmore. I enjoy being an official Wilmoran, as we talk about it here, because I’ve been now over 30 years in the Wilmore community. So, it’s been a great place to be. Being a part of this community, being a part of the Seminary has been a wonderful part of the last about 14 or 15 years of that, and have enjoyed the opportunity to work with students that are preparing for ministry of some sort. Whether that’s ministry to church or counseling ministries in the church and beyond the church, this is just a wonderful way to begin to help people prepare for what they’re moving into in the world.

Heidi Wilcox:
Sounds good. Dr. Holeman.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Yeah. I have been at the Seminary officially longer than Dr. Stratton.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
That’s true.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Although not nearly as long in the greater Lexington, Wilmore area. I have really enjoyed teaching at the Seminary, teaching in the area primarily of clinical counseling more than pastoral counseling and working with the students there on things. That’s me.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Well, welcome. Dr. Izzard.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Thank you, and I’m so excited to be here. I would have to say, against my esteemed colleagues that are right beside me, that I’m the baby associate professor of counseling at Asbury Theological Seminary, but I am overwhelmed and just excited to be a part of the Asbury family. I do have a background as a practitioner in mental health counseling for about more than 15 years. I’ve also been teaching hybrid for about five years. I’m excited to be a part of a place that I can truly call home and feel a great fit, because God has always been number one and the center of my life. Heidi, I’m just so excited about you all and how you’re embracing mental health as mental health is a passion of mine, and I realize that we are currently in a mental health crisis, so I’m excited for us to dive in and to speak about these self care strategies and tips, because I know that they are going to be valuable for so many people.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes. I really appreciate you guys taking the time, and I’m sure our conversation will be really helpful to our listeners as well. You kind of led right into this. Since almost a year ago from the date we’re recording, the world has just changed dramatically. First, with the COVID pandemic, the racial issues that didn’t just come to light, that didn’t just happen in 2020, but I think came to everyone’s attention in 2020. I think there was no way to say you didn’t know anymore after that year, and we had the presidential election as well and all that went along with that. At least for me, and I think a good share of the population, we’ve been on active alert since last year and kind of in perpetual fight or flight mode. I’m curious what was this year like for you guys?

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I’m going to start. Heidi, I really think you put some nice language, that idea of perpetual alert and fight and flight, especially at the beginning when there was no normal. We were all searching for something that would anchor us in a normal something, which no longer was normal. There was no normal, so part of the alarm was, “Where is my new normal?” I’m just going to own this. Please do not disrupt my routines. I love my routines. They calm me down. They make me feel safe, and they weren’t there.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I mean, within 24 hours, they were stripped. For me, part of finding a new normal was, as quickly as possible, establishing the same routines that I could, that I had 24 hours ago, which included things like my time with Jesus and my devotions. Nothing needed to disrupt that. I like to walk, so I could still walk outdoors. That was still there. Luckily, it was spring and not in the deep [inaudible 00:07:16] winter, but I was on alarm for several months, ebbing and flowing. There would be times that I’d be just find, especially if I was distracted by work, but it was the moments when I was literally quiet before the Lord that I would really sense how anxious I was.

Heidi Wilcox:
What about the rest of you?

Dr. Steve Stratton:
I think for me, Toddy is describing it very well. When I talk to my clients, when I talk to students, when I talk to people in church, it’s a very similar sort of story, where the things that were regular, the things that typically gave us a feeling of structure, that allowed us to feel, maybe an illusion to some degree, but it’s a helpful illusion that life is going to be predictable in some sense. When that’s stripped away, I feel like I’ve lost my secure base, my safe haven in many ways. With that, comes the kind of insecurity that Toddy is describing. I certainly felt that.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
It was like decisions that were often times automatically made couldn’t be automatically made, so everything took more effort. Everything took more energy, and I found myself more tired by the heavier burden that I was carrying in those situations. Even though I knew, had a sense, because I’d talked with clients about this all the time of what was going on, that knowledge of it doesn’t necessarily mitigate the experience of it. It helps me kind of understand it, but it doesn’t take away the burdensomeness of it. For me, part of it was having to re-introduce just very basic things about the way I slept, how I exercised, what I ate, and all of those very basic things had to be re-thought for me. That was kind of laying the foundation for the other things that I needed to build on after that point.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Sounds good. For me, the experience was a little different, Heidi, once the pandemic began, because I was in a major leadership role as president of a local counseling association, which is the American Counseling Association of Georgia. So, actually I was already in a fast-paced rhythm and a routine, being the primary leader of this organization. Because our organization is new, and I’m a founding member of that organization, much of the responsibility was on me. I had to immediately identify what the needs were going to be as it related to the counselors, counselor students, and counselor educators across the state of Georgia, what that was going to look like for them, and make sure that I was able to provide some support and provide some resources, because of course I knew, as a mental health practitioner, that we were definitely getting ready to see some rises as it related to mental health challenges in the clients, in the students, as well as in the counselors.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
So, that’s where immediately my mind had to go to, and I had to prepare events, get those events established, and complete those events. Then, in the midst of that, just within a couple of months, then we had the George Floyd murder and Ahmaud Arbery right here in Georgia. So, then again, my mind had to revamp again, and I had to see what was most relevant and what was most important to bring to the counselors, counselor students, and counselor educators across the state of Georgia. So, I was able to stay in a routine, and I really didn’t get a chance to think about COVID until towards the end of my presidency. Thank god. I was so focused on serving, so focused on serving, and I’m a servant leader at heart. I really do go all in and all out, so I’m just grateful to God that he was able to continue to speak to me during that time and that I continued my self care during that time, because that helped me to finish out my presidential term in a successful manner and help so many.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Yes. I’m glad you brought up your own self care, because each of you serves others, like serves students, sees clients, is serving as president. Dr. Izzard, I feel stress just hearing about all that you would have had to do with everything that was going on in the world. Is it easier for you guys to navigate these crises that we’re going through because you’re counselors and know all the things to do? Because I feel like in that way, you guys might be kind of like super heroes to be able to navigate all this, but I understand that you’re human as well and would experience these things in a similar way to what I would experience. Does that make sense?

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Yeah. Let me jump on what Dr. Stratton, and what Steve emphasized was just because we know stuff, doesn’t mean we are immune from the reactions, the human reactions of uncertainty, of fear, of alarm. The beauty of knowledge though is being able to more quickly accept what I know and put it into practice, that I think all of us value self care, in the end valued self care prior to the pandemic happening.

Heidi Wilcox:
Definitely.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
So, it may be differently, but all of us already had self care habits that were well rehearsed and well practiced. That’s one of the things we emphasize in our counseling program from the first classes right through graduation is we basically insist that students develop self care strategies, physical, emotional, relational, spiritual, so that when they get out in the field they will, again, have well-rehearsed, practiced self care habits that will support them. I distinctly remember going to the grocery store and saying to my self, “I’m taking my life in my hands picking out onions. What’s wrong with this picture?”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. The first time I went to the grocery store and actually went in and didn’t click list, it was early on because they didn’t have something on the click list, so I had to go in. We were all wearing masks at that point, and nobody was looking at each other. I went early in the morning, not during the vulnerable category, but as soon as I could after that. I just walked through the grocery store and wanted to cry, because it was all so weird. I remember maybe a second trip in a few weeks later, there was an employee there, and she greeted me like it was normal. We were far away, but I was like, “Bless you, because you have established some sense of normalcy to this awful thing that I now have to do, because nobody wants to talk to me.”

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Yeah. I think one of the things that Toddy is mentioning when it comes to self care practices is that it’s not very helpful to start your self care practices when the crisis hits. I mean, that may do some good, but the reality is if you’re not already practicing when the crisis hits, then it’s very likely that you’re not going to get the full benefit of that training. That’s part of the thing we talk about with our students is that we want them to begin training here for the things that they’re going to do when they’re in practice out there, because we can’t expect them to get much benefit if they just learn about it here and start to practice it later.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
They’ve got to start training now. I found that to be true for my life during the pandemic times, during these times where we’ve seen the racial sort of situations that have left us all feeling insecure and unsettled. When we’ve seen all the political wrangling and the uproar around these kinds of things, it’s kind of like the world has come off of its moorings to some degree. If we were not practicing self care to this point, yes, we need to be starting now, but the reality is we have to be careful. We have to be aware that self care is something we need to be doing all along and not just in the difficult moments.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right. That’s a good word.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely.

Heidi Wilcox:
Do you have anything to add, Dr. Izzard?

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
I want to make sure we hear from everyone, but don’t want to put pressure on anyone to chime in if they’re like, “I’m good.”

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely. Steve and Toddy, we’re usually in sync, but absolutely. That is what we teach our students. That is what I teach my mentees. That is what I teach my supervisees, is that we want to stay in a place of intentionality when it comes to self care, meaning it needs to be scheduled, Heidi. You have to schedule your self care time in, and nothing can interfere with that. Sometimes, that can be challenging for individuals with a spouse, individuals with children. I’m single, and that’s still something I thank God for that I can spend as much time with them as possible, but I know that’s not the case for all individuals, so I still have to be intentional.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
I still have to schedule it in, because I’m doing so many purpose-filled and service-related things, so I do understand when individuals have families and they have to balance that. But I still encourage them. If you have to get up early in the morning, five o’clock in the morning before the house gets up, the children, the husband, and things get to moving around, or you have to cook breakfast. Whatever time of quietness and stillness you can find for yourself is going to be essential. That exercise time is so important. That’s something that I was so grateful for that, because the pandemic, everything started with the restrictions in March of last year, so we’re coming up on the year anniversary.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
For some individuals, there may be a PTSD even related response, because we’re just two weeks away from all of what happened on last year. But when that happened, the weather was beautiful here in Georgia, so even though the gym’s closed, I was able to get out and do what I consider a faith walk, a nature walk, and talk to God. I was able to dance on my walks. I was able to jog on my walks. All of that was a benefit to helping me stay balanced and to helping me physically as well as mentally and emotionally. Again, being intentional about that self care, and that was something I was already practicing. Like Steve said, that makes all the difference when crisis hits, because this is already a part of you. It’s innate, you might as well say, because you’ve been doing it and practicing it for so long.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
You know, it’s really interesting. As we’re talking about these things, we probably ought to not assume that everybody who’s listening to us appreciates self care. As a matter of fact, as I talk about this idea within churches often … Well, not often, but it’s not unusual. It’s certainly not a rare occurrence that people will come up afterwards or might even raise their hand during the presentation and say something along the lines of, “Self care is selfish. Self care is not a biblical concept, because it just means that you’re self absorbed, and you’re thinking only of yourself in these things.”

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Trying to help people understand that self care is nothing more than, as what Laklieshia was indirectly pointing out, self care is nothing more than creating space for God’s care, to receive the care that God wants to give to us. If we are not establishing that foundation of creating space for God to be able, in his grace, to continue to give to us, then often times we become obstacles to that grace. So, self care is really just, as Laklieshia has explained, is opening ourselves up to God’s movement in our lives, and all the practices are just about creating space for God’s grace to flow into our life so that then we are able to kind of let that grace overflow into the world and into the lives of other people who are around us. Otherwise, if we’re not doing that, we are not going to be good for others around us either. Again, I don’t know. Toddy and Laklieshia, you may have heard some of those comments from other people as well.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I know that certainly is an attitude that many have to wrap their minds around in terms of … I think about it as God has given me this body, and I’m the only one that can take care of it. No one else. Unless I’m incapacitated and in the hospital, then others have to do the care giving for my physical being. I’m the only one that can make choices about what I put in my mouth and what I eat. I’m the only one that can make choices about how much sleep I get, unless you have children, pets, or spouses that interrupt your sleep. I’m the only one that , no one else can go exercise for me, can go walking for me. No one else can have devotions for me. These are ways that I think about taking care of the temple that the Holy Spirit lives in so that I don’t engage in differed maintenance, and we know that’s not a good practice for our homes and shouldn’t be a good practice for our bodies as well.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely. Like Steve said, it’s all about God care, so if you feel like you’re not as comfortable with the term “self care,” then absolutely God care, because just as Toddy said, God has blessed us with this temple. It is our responsibility to take care of it. That’s still a part of our sanctification as we’re growing in our relationship with God. He wants us to take care of our physical bodies as well as our mental and emotional health, because they’re all connected.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Like Steve said, if we are not taking care of our physical, mental, and emotional states of ourselves, we will not be effective to be able to take care of others and serve others. Think about all of the things that I was just saying that I was doing once COVID hit. If I had not already been taking care of myself, would I have been able to continue to press through and still be energetic, and still be full with joy and hope going through that process to be able to help so many counselors, counselor students, and counselor educators across the state of Georgia? Absolutely not. So, we have to learn how to take care of ourselves and allowing God to teach us even more about what that looks like.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. [crosstalk 00:23:15] Those are good words. Go ahead, Dr. Holeman.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
One of the things that I think happens when we get into these unprecedented, multiple crises times, because boy … That’s what we ended up with. As you talk about the pandemic and then the racial unrest leading right into the presidential and electoral unrest, you have crises, uncertainty upon uncertainty upon uncertainty, which sends us all into some level of fight, flight, freeze. You get to add to freak and fawn mode, and when you get there you can’t think clearly.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Your decision-making process, you are too busy being self protected. It’s just how God has created us, so we all close in instead of opening. So, those self care practices help us manage our brain. It’s like, “Be the boss of your brain,” to calm ourselves down, and then to be able to anchor in Jesus. It’s a both and process. Jesus is there for me to anchor into, and eh will bid me come walk on the water, but I’m the one that has to get out of the boat. I’m the one who has to cooperate, so I have my part of this to do along with looking to God to be that safe haven and secure base for me when everything is topsy-turvy.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Yeah. I think theologically, we connected to the idea of stewardship, and that we’re talking about being a steward of our bodies, our brains as well as the other relationships that we have around us. That’s what self care and that idea of self care as creating the space for God’s care of us so that we are not so protective and we’re not burying our talent, as the Parable talks about. We are actually involved in investing. We can’t do that if we are in that fight or flight sort of process. It’s a stewardship sort of a theological stance that we’re trying to articulate, I think.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I think I was to tack on here as well that we’ve been talking about practices that we can do as individuals, but another important piece about this is the relationality. Who are you surrounding yourself with?

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh. That’s good.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
The other people in your environment, because their brain may be calm at a time your brain is going whacko. That’s a technical, psychological [crosstalk 00:25:58]. Often, we become sources of safety and security for one another to help not only self regulate but offer regulation to those around us who are meaningful connections to us. I know while we were quarantining at home and healthy at home, as we were saying in Kentucky, the connection with my faculty colleagues was really important, even if it happened with Zoom meetings. As we shared our stories, our struggles, and our own fears, but then came back, and even in that process since I’m talking to other counselors, we have a way of engaging one another that doesn’t increase alarm, but helps reduce alarm.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely. And to put a name to what Toddy is saying, Heidi, peer support is definitely another strategy of self care, so that’s with your colleagues, that’s with your closest immediate loved ones, your close knit circle. I had a strong support system, absolutely, during that time as well. Even though I couldn’t see them physically, I was able to connect with them over the telephone, via Zoom, FaceTime, all this good technology we have now, but that peer support is essential, and it takes us back to what the word says as it relates to iron sharpening iron, Proverbs 27 and 17.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
So, we have to be mindful that we do need those connections, as Toddy was speaking about what we’re doing today. This is still peer support. This is going out to all of the individuals across the seminary. They will hear this conversation. They will hear what we’re saying. They’ll make those connections. So, we absolutely need peer support. During my presidential term, that was something that I did create during that time, was counselor peer support groups to assist the counselors with having that connection, talking about some of their feelings and what they were going through during the time of the pandemic, the questions that they had to ask and answer, and to talk even more about their self care practices and what they were doing and were not doing. The peer support is an essential part of self care.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Absolutely. I’ve never been so grateful for technology as I have been the last year. To be able to still connect with people, even in different ways, so that’s just been huge for me. You guys are in the field. I’ve only read news articles about this, but how have you seen the pandemic intensify peoples’ experiences of anxiety, depression, anger, or identified other mental health gaps?

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
There is no shortage.

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m sure.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I think you began talking about it, Heidi, to begin with. Number one, those things that we had built in as routines were no longer there.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
So, even for folks that felt … I’m a relatively calm individual. I’m not going to own that for myself. My colleagues might challenge that perception, that delusion on my part, but even for those who have fairly solid mental health, there was this sense of unknown and unknowing, because the whole world in our lifetime had never gone through a pandemic. The fact that I was feeling anxious, it never arouse to a clinical level, but I was feeling anxious. I’m not sure that I went through any sort of depression, but I certainly did feel anxiety. I know for my own students, one of the things that, as a faculty, I know we were very concerned about was the wellbeing of our students. Those who were residential, the Kentucky campus, who were living in seminary housing, especially for single students may have had more restrictions or not with their families. That creates alarm, so yes. I think there is well documented an increase in levels of depression, anxiety, and suicidality as well. While technology connects, there’s also isolation in that connection.

Heidi Wilcox:
Absolutely.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Yeah. I think one of the things that I come back to with a lot of the people that I’m working with is something you mentioned, Heidi, early on, and that is the loss that they’ve experienced. That sense of loss, that bereavement that maybe it would certainly be evident when we’ve lost loved ones, but it may not be the loss of a physical or relational status. It may be a loss of just some of the things we’ve come to expect. The loss of regularity, the loss of a lot of different aspects that we are grieving. I don’t think we’ve all understood the impact of grief on our lives. It’s a powerful emotional, physical, and spiritual sort of dynamic that we as human beings can’t get away from in loss.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
It’s not like if you’re strong, you don’t have grief. Strong or weak, it doesn’t matter. Grief is just a part of our experience when we lose something. I think that’s an important understanding that the anxiety, the things that feel like depression, and some of these other pieces are in some sense normalized when we begin to realize that it’s just a response to the loss that is pervasive now. We’ve got a grieving culture right now for so many different reasons, some of the things. So, we’ve got to let that inform us that we need kind of a grief-informed approach to everything that goes on in our family lives, in our church lives, in our institutional lives. We’ve got to be aware that everything is coming through that screen of grief.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Hopefully, it allows us to be a little bit more patient and caring of one another, but if nothing else, it should inform us that we are all hurting and are trying to get back to a place where the grief is no longer the dominant sort of experience for us. Grief is one of those things that never leaves us. We are going to be changed. We are going to be different, and that’s just expected. So, it’s not about getting beyond it. We will always have this experience we carry with us as a result of these things, but the incapacitation or the intense experience does tend to go away. As we find new stability, we find a way of getting our feet firmly planted again.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
You know, I’ve been very aware of that. As I talk about my own anxiety, that for all of us, even on this podcast, we still have jobs. We still have homes. I am not living with an eviction notice hanging over my head. I am not living with unemployment, wondering when will the unemployment check end. I’m not living with food insecurity and, “Do I pay the bills, or do I feed my family, or do I buy my medicine?”

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I have not experienced that, and I can only in my heart just grieve that there are so many who may be listening to this podcast or know others who are, where those anxieties aren’t just generalized existential anxieties. Those are hard and fast, real fears about, “Will I be living out on the street? Will I be able to put food on the table? What job will I have if I will have a job?” I just want to name those true realities for so many people, and even some of our seminary students who have had to make a choice about, “I may not be able to afford tuition, because I don’t have a job anymore” or “I have to support other wings in my family.”

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely. It goes back to those, they were in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, and realizing that when those basic needs are not met, such as food, shelter, water, how can we then expect individuals to be in a place of mental health? That’s where their anxiety and their challenges rooted in that. Much of the research was saying, as it related to COVID-19, that it became public anxiety, and literally it did. Whether or not you were experiencing it directly, as what Toddy was mentioning about, or what Steve was mentioning about, indirectly, so many of us have experienced secondary traumatic stress, because it’s just been so much that we’ve been seeing with the death toll, with what the individuals are experiencing around the world and here in our country.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
We could not escape it, so we have been indirectly traumatized also by COVID, even if not directly. Looking at the grief part of it, there are many individuals who are experiencing the five stages of grief: denial, bargaining, and hopefully getting to acceptance, but depression is a part of that. Anger is a part of that. Some individuals know they’re experiencing it, and some individuals don’t. Like Steve said, that’s not something we can escape either, whether you’re aware of it or not. It’s helpful if you’re aware of it, because you’re able to allow yourself to grieve and to work through those stages, which hence professional counseling can really help you to grow through grief and to get to a place of healing.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Again, you have to then be able to allow yourself to grieve, especially life as we once knew it, because we are living in a new norm. There are individuals who are still in denial about that, and you keep hearing, “Oh. I can’t wait for things to get back to normal,” or post-COVID this, and post-COVID that. No. Things are not going to go back to the way that it was. We will be in a place prayerfully that is better, but we are now in a virtual world. This is a virtual world now, and many individuals are having learning curves and different things related to it, but this is a part of where we’re going. It’s going to continue to grow. We’ve never seen so many virtual events, and virtual, and virtual that happening, because we are in a new norm.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
We have to be able to grieve life as we once knew it. There was a time we didn’t have to be conscious about wearing our mask, having sanitizer in our car, and having anti-bacterial wipes in our car. I went to the salon on Friday and got all the way there with no mask. I said, “What? I know I didn’t forget my mask. How did I do that?” Then, I thought about it, and I said, “Okay. Every store is just about selling disposable masks now. Okay. You just need to wrap something tight around your face, get in there, and get your disposable mask.” It lets you know that we’re in a new norm again, and we have to be able to accept that new norm and allow ourselves to grieve what we once knew as our norm before.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Yes. I’m glad you guys mention the part about whether we’re aware or not, we have to process through it. I want to talk a little bit too, the person listening who may have been thinking, “I think I need to incorporate counseling as part of a practice for me.” Then also, this is kind of two questions in one, which they tell you in journalism school, “Don’t do,” but I think they’re together. Also, the person who, how to start recognizing signs in your self, so you do become aware. I know for me, I’m married, so I have somebody else who is great and will gently tell me, “Hey. I see this and this that’s happening. Are you really okay?”, but not everybody has that, so how can we recognize in ourselves that we may need something, or if we’ve been thinking about it, how do we take that next step?

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
One of the markers for the fact that I really need to reach out beyond my peer support network could be to what extent are your daily living habits being impacted? Sleeping too much or not sleeping enough? Eating too much or not eating enough? Being hyperactive, because if you slow down you’re aware of what’s inside, or being totally apathetic, because you just can’t generate the energy. So, some of those daily living and physiological markers that if there’s no bounce back, we all have that ebb and flow with our sleeping, our eating, and our energy level, but if it’s a persistent nose dive from what normal is, that could be a really good sign of getting additional help, even if it’s starting with your general practitioner to make sure that there’s nothing physiological that’s contributing. Kind of a ruling out could be really, really helpful.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
And maybe if folks around you are saying, “Maybe you might think about getting counseling,” that could also be another good indicator.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
That’s a good one.

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m also thinking too about just kind of the signs of depression, anxiety, and anger that kind of have taken it from maybe normal human responses of being worries about certain things, kind of to the clinical level. As you guys answer your questions, could we talk a little bit about those as well?

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Signs and symptoms are always there, Heidi. Maybe times, again, individuals may not be aware, because they feel like it’s things that they’ve been experiencing over time. Many people have been in chronic exhaustion and stress over time, but there are things such as pains, aches and pains, back aches, headaches, things that have been consistent or that even pop up out of the blue, and the individual feels like maybe their irritability. This comes from when you’re snapping off the closest person, snapping their head off that’s closest to you. We call it displacement of anger as well. “Heidi, are you doing all right? Is everything okay?”

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Being on edge. Hypervigilant. Not knowing what’s going to happen, and having concern about that and whether these different things are going to change. Lack of interest. Not wanting to be creative. Not wanting to be a part of hobbies. We know that with COVID, some of those things are limited, but even the things that you can do, not having an interest level in that. So, we have so many. Feeling helpless and hopeless, but I think one of the things for individuals to understand is that they can do some self assessments on their own. There are many major organizations out here, like Mental Health of America, National Alliance for Mental Illness. They have these self assessments on their website that you can go to and take a quick self assessment, and it’s going to let you know where some of your levels are as it relates to some of these symptoms.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
That can also help you, and then letting you know that you need to seek professional counseling or seek some help so that someone can help work through that with you. The warning signs are usually there. The symptoms are always there, but we still have to be intentional with taking some self assessments, and we also have to be intentional about being still so that we recognize what’s really going on with us. As Heidi said, if your daily functioning is being impacted, you’re realizing that you’re not able to do your daily routines as you would normally do, and you have clouded thinking, meaning there’s no clarity in your thinking and you can’t concentrate on certain things, all of those are related symptoms. Again, there’s so many, Heidi.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m glad you said that some of them were likely already there pre-COVID, pre-2020. All of that, because in my own life, like everyone else, I feel like 2020 sent everything that was in me into overdrive. So, it’s coming out, whereas maybe before I could keep it kind of controlled, contained, and maybe even tamp down, although I don’t think that is a good thing, but I can manage it and suppress it. I was just like, “No. No.”

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
I’m sorry, Toddy. I’ll just say this one thing. Many people were sharing about being in marriages and hadn’t spent that amount of time with their spouse before, so many individuals started to say, “Well, I realized I really don’t like my spouse that much,” or “I realized I needed to work on some things really within me so that I can really get to know who my spouse is, so it’s just like what you were saying, Heidi. Many of those things were already going on, but COVID and the quarantining piece just amplified, magnified what those things were that individuals were rushing off as they were going about their busy routines and busy days. Go ahead, Toddy.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Yeah. That’s exactly where I was going with, Laklieshia, that people were anxious before COVID-19 and found their routine helped them stay wrapped together, but they knew they were anxious and that COVID-19 just unwrapped everything. So, their anxiety was sky rocketing, and their functioning went downhill. It’s just this negative thing, so we saw it in students. Students that we already knew were anxious about academic things, who were challenged meeting deadlines, on a good day found that COVID-19 really derailed them academically, where they were not attending to any deadline. They could barely figure out how to get on Zoom or be on Zoom. Now, many, many, many have already found their footing, but that was just an example. It was a pre-existing condition, is what we would call it, that just got magnified with the pandemic. But you also asked the question about finding a counselor.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:46:10] I was going to circle back to that, so I’m glad you did. I just want to say I think we’re lost Dr. Stratton, so hopefully he’ll be able to, with the internet or whatever’s going on, work that out and hop back on, but he’s not just being silent, for people listening who can’t see what’s actually happening. So, hopefully he’ll back with us shortly. But yes, so we can talk about how to find a good counselor.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
One of the things you could do is ask your pastor. One of the things that I liked when I am with M. Div Students, tell them, “Take counselors in your area out to lunch.” That would have been pre-COVID-19, right? But [inaudible 00:46:54] more senior clergy in your area. Who do they refer to so that you can feel comfortable as clergy, or the pastor in your church, to offer referrals to your members who are asking for them? Or say it from the pulpit. If you preach it, it will be okay to talk about it, so if you talk about depression and anxiety from the pulpit and talk about it being okay to go get mental health support, that makes it okay and it reduces the stigma of that. Ask your friends. If you’re uncomfortable doing that, many of the organizations, like the American Associations of Marriage and Family Therapist, their website, AAMFT.org, they have a function that’s called Therapist Finder.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh nice.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
And of course, you can search by geography, search by city. You will get AAMFT members, but that’s another thing. If you could just Google … Better Health is a virtual service that’s across the country, so you can tap into Better Health. That’s the name of it, isn’t it, Laklieshia? Is it Better Health?

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Yes, you’re correct. Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Are you saying BetterHelp or Better Health?

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
And it’s actually global, so it’s all over the country.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, that’s awesome.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
All over the country.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
And I’ll link to all these resources in the show notes too so that people listening can reach out if they would like to.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
Absolutely, and that’s all telemental health, so it will be all via the internet, counseling via the internet. The other piece about when it comes to looking for a therapist, this is why I’m still sleepy this morning, y’all, but I was on the phone most of the night with a minister friend whose been a minister for more than 20 years. I’ve encouraged her. She’s actually a former student of mine as well, and I’ve encouraged her to move on and get her masters. She’s learning a lot about psychology and counseling, so she realized … She’s like, “You know, I believe I need counseling,” so we of course had this long conversation last night.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
One of the things I spoke to her about was utilizing her relationship with Christ. Allow God to lead you to that person. Yeah, I can give you some of the tips as far as the organizations that are out here. Also, Counseling Today. That’s another one that you can go on and search counselors in your local area, look at their specialty areas, their credentials, and all of those things, but I told her, “Even before you start that process, you want to talk to God about it.” I said, “And you want to talk to him so that he could lead and direct you, and allow the Holy Spirit to give you that comforting that you need as it relates to your pursuing counseling and connecting you with the right fit,” because we do.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
We want to be connected with individuals who are culturally competent, that understand the faith-based piece, that understand faith integration, and especially when we have individuals that have a strong faith base like us, and we have clergy, individuals who are ministers, who are pastors, who are missionaries. It’s important for faith to be included in their treatment, so absolutely. Going to God, going to the Father, and talking to him about leading you, and then going to these places that Toddy mentioned, and like I mentioned about Counseling Today. And watch God connect you. Watch him do it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I think just about every counselor that I know has a website, so if you just Googled your city and licensed … So, for everybody out there who’s not steeped in the world of licensure, you could search for licensed psychologist. You can search for licensed marriage and family therapist. You can search for licensed professional counselors, which is who we train at Asbury. You can search for licensed clinical social workers. Those would be the folks out there who would have a virtual office that you wouldn’t even need to leave your house to have an appointment these days. Now, some places they are doing face-to-face appointments again, but not every place. Again, just searching the internet, counselors will describe themselves on the internet, so is that a good fit for you? I will say that the research about good outcomes in counseling really emphasizes the quality of the counselor-client relationship. If you start out with someone and you don’t get a good sense in yourself about this relationship, bail and find somebody else. Don’t hang out there for six sessions, still feeling uncomfortable.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m glad you-

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
It may take a while to find someone that’s a good fit for you, who’s respectful of faith, and who’s knowledgeable to treat the issues that you’re bringing to the table.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
That’s smart.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Dr. Stratton, I’m glad to have you back with us again. Technology is great when it works, isn’t it?

Dr. Steve Stratton:
So, it took me this long to get back in. Sorry about that.

Heidi Wilcox:
No worries. We’re glad to have you. We’re just talking about how to find a good counselor, so that’s kind of where we are in this conversation, but Dr. Holeman was just talking about finding a good fit with your counselor. I’m glad you said that, because I just started with BetterHelp, so I’m glad you recommended that one. I just started reaching out to a counselor. My first experience, I was like, “This isn’t a good fit for me,” so I did request to change counselors, but also I think maybe being raised as a Christian woman, I was like, “Oh. I feel kind of bad about this, to be like, ‘I’m not enjoying this. This isn’t going to work for me,'” so I’m glad you kind of are empowering people to move on and do what’s best for them. That’s important.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
And don’t hang out. It should be a good fit within the first two sessions.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Right.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
Like, the [crosstalk 00:53:38] suggests that clients make the greatest increase and get feeling better within the first six sessions, unless it’s severe trauma, severe PTSD. It’s going to be a much slower pace, but you should be able to feel good about your connection, feel like your counselor understands you, understands the goals that you want, understands faith if that’s what you want to include and is at least respectful of your faith, and asks about it if that is what you’re interested in having as part of the conversation. So, be empowered. We all know, as licensed professionals, that we are not going to help everybody. We’re not going to be the best fit for everybody. It just is, so be empowered to find the person that’s going to be the best fit for you.

Dr. Steve Stratton:
Yeah. There is a certain humility about being a counselor, realizing exactly what Toddy just said, that I’m not going to be able to help everybody. I’m not going to be effective with everyone. There are other people out there in the community that will be able to help this person better than I, so I would just say that if you’ve got a healthy counselor, and you’re saying, “We don’t fit,” that’s not a personal accusation or a professional sort of indictment. It’s just saying, “You know, thank you very much, but I think I’m going to try to find someone else that is a better fit for me as I enter into this. Besides, I’m paying for it, so I need to [crosstalk 00:55:21].”

Heidi Wilcox:
Right. Right. I want to be mindful of everyone’s time, but before we wrap this up, and we have one question that we ask everyone … So, before we wrap that up though, is there anything else you’d like to mention that we haven’t already talked about?

Dr. Steve Stratton:
I can’t think of anything, but I was gone for periods of time, so I assume my esteemed colleagues have covered everything very, very well.

Heidi Wilcox:
I think so, but I just want to give the opportunity.

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I’m good.

Heidi Wilcox:
All right. The last question that we always ask everyone … Because the show is called the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast, what is one practice, spiritual or otherwise, that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Dr. Toddy Holeman:
I am a major walker, W-A-L-K-E-R. I love to walk, and it’s free. It’s easy. I can combine walking and praying, so that’s one of the consistent practices that I have maintained.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s good.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
For me, it’s a little similar too, Heidi. Mine would be exercise and meditation. For me, going to the gym or going outside, jogging, and running, during that time I’m also listening to faith-filled messages. I’m listening to inspirational music. I’m talking to God at the same time, so all of that is meditation for me as well as working on my physical body at the same time, which releases those beautiful chemicals we like to call endorphins in the brain, those happy chemicals. So, all of that is a benefit, and that’s something I try to do at least six days a week, so that is intentional.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. That’s awesome.

Dr. Laklieshia Izzard:
And a part of my self care plan. I think one of the things we mentioned before about that peer support, that connection with others is something I think that truly helps me to thrive. I wanted to share a scripture reference too, as we’re coming to a close, is Proverbs 15:22. It speaks about, “Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisors they succeed.” Again, I think that just takes us back to what we’re doing right here in this conversation, and realizing that we need counsel, we need to go through those self care plans, but we also need other advisors. We need connections. We need other individuals around us to help us to succeed and to thrive.

Heidi Wilcox:
Absolutely. Dr. Stratton, how about you?

Dr. Steve Stratton:
I would say the things that have helped me to thrive particularly during this period of time are things that are related to contemplative prayer. Sometimes I’ll do that walking. Sometimes I’ll do that sitting, but contemplative prayer is really about training attention so that I’m aware of God’s presence that is always in each moment, and his invitation to be a part of life with him in that particular time and in that context. So, that sort of training for me and prayer has been vital as I’ve tried to engage this last year in particular, because for me the center piece of that is recognizing that no matter what I’m going through and what I’m involved in, he is always present. He is always active. He is always loving, and that keeps my perspective centered on the right things. No matter what is going on, he is with me in the midst of those things. For me, contemplative prayer is just practice over and over again of coming back to that reality that he is present and he is real in these moments.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Absolutely. Those are good words. Thank you all so much for your time today, for our conversation about mental health, self care, how we can incorporate counseling into our lives if that is needed. You guys have made it so easy and so accessible for us. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I have no doubt that those listening will benefit from it as well, so thank you all so very much.

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Izzard, Dr. Stratton, and Dr. Holeman. I can’t tell you how grateful I am and how much I enjoyed this conversation. It’s so needed right now, and I really appreciate how easy and accessible they made it for me and for anyone listening to find a counselor that is a good fit for them. So, if this conversation you have been thinking about taking the next step to incorporate counseling into your life, but you haven’t yet, or this conversation highlighted some gaps in your life, in your mental health that you’re like, “I would like to talk to somebody about that,” be sure to check out the links in our show notes.

Heidi Wilcox:
We link to everything that they mentioned to help you find a counselor that is a good fit for you, so thank you guys so much for listening. Thanks to Dr. Stratton, Dr. Holeman, and Dr. Izzard for being part of the show. So grateful to them for their work and their gift to us today by offering us ways to find the help that we need. As always, you can follow us in all the places; On Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at @asburyseminary. Until next time, go do something that helps you thrive.