Today on the podcast, I got to talk to Dr. Alan Meenan, founder and president of The Word Is Out. He is the author of numerous articles, books and study guides. He teaches extensively throughout Asia, Africa and America. Besides being born in Belfast Northern Ireland, he has lived in Scotland and East Africa and the U.S. He has served the Church in the United States for more than 40 years, in Virginia, Texas and California – most notably as Senior Pastor of the famed Hollywood Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles.
Dr. Meenan holds five academic degrees from the Queen’s University of Belfast (B.A. Hons), Asbury Theological Seminary (M.Div. & Th.M.) and a Ph.D. from Edinburgh University. In today’s conversation, we, of course, talk about how he came to know Jesus, his call to ministry, how he came to the Seminary, his work as a pastor, and how The Word Is Out came to be.
Let’s listen!
*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.
Dr. Alan J. Meenan, Founder and President, The Word Is Out Ministry
Alan J. Meenan, PhD, DD. is founder and president of The Word Is Out. He is the author of numerous articles, books and study guides. He teaches extensively throughout Asia, Africa and America. Besides growing up in Belfast Northern Ireland, he has lived in Scotland and East Africa. He has served the Church in the United States for more than 40 years, in Virginia, Texas and California – most notably as Senior Pastor of the famed Hollywood Presbyterian Church in Los Angeles.
Dr. Meenan holds five academic degrees from the Queen’s University of Belfast (BA Hons), Asbury Theological Seminary (MDiv & ThM) and a PhD from Edinburgh University. He was elected to membership in Theta Phi, an international honors society as well as the Tyndale Fellowship for Biblical Research in Cambridge, England. He was appointed Research Fellow at Yale University and was later honored with a Doctor of Divinity degree from his Alma Mater, Asbury Theological Seminary in 2011.
Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast
Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.
Show Notes
Guest Links
- Connect with Dr. Alan Meenan on Facebook
Transcript
Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive With Asbury Seminary podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep needs. Today on the podcast, I got to talk to Dr. Alan Meenan, founder and president of The Word Is Out. He is the author of numerous articles, books, and study guides and he teaches extensively throughout Asia, Africa and America.
Heidi Wilcox:
Besides being born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, he has lived in Scotland and East Africa and the US. He has served the church in the US for more than 40 years in the states of Virginia, Texas and California. Most notably, as senior pastor of the famed Hollywood Presbyterian Church in LA. Dr. Meenan holds five academic degrees from Queens University of Belfast, Asbury Seminary and a PhD from Edinburgh University.
Heidi Wilcox:
In today’s conversation, we of course, talk about how he came to know Jesus, his call to ministry, how he came to Asbury, his work as a pastor and how The Word Is Out came to be. Let’s listen. Dr. Meenan, thank you so much for joining me today. I’ve really been looking forward to this conversation and it’s not very often that I get to chat with somebody from Ireland.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Thank you. Thank you, Heidi. It’s lovely being here and I’m not sure that my accent is… It may disappoint you a little bit because it’s a combination of American accent and an Irish accent, I think. Interestingly, when I was coming here, went to the train station and the train master giving me the ticket said, “Oh, you going on holiday?” And I said, “I am.” And he said, “And where are you going?” And I said, “I’m going to the United States.” He says, “Oh, you’re going home.”
Heidi Wilcox:
So he can really hear the American-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
He heard the American accent because-
Heidi Wilcox:
See, I don’t hear that. I hear the Irish accent.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting, some people hear the Irish accent, some people hear the American accent and the truth is that I don’t have an accent. Anyway, yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So if you “don’t have an accent,” you must have spent quite some time in the states. How did you get from Ireland to the US?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, first of all, I mean, I’ve lived most of my life in America.
Heidi Wilcox:
If I was from Ireland, I don’t think I would’ve done that.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh, really?
Heidi Wilcox:
It’s so beautiful over there. At least in pictures. I’ve never been-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It is beautiful, it is beautiful. But America’s beautiful too.
Heidi Wilcox:
It is.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I mean, I love this country and I’ve spent most of my life here. This is my adopted homeland. It’s not the land of my birth, but it’s my adopted homeland and I’m proud of it, and I’m proud to be an American. I’m one of those rare breeds. Actually, I’ve got three passports.
Heidi Wilcox:
Really?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah. I’ve got a British passport and a Irish passport and an American passport. So it depends where I’m going or who I’ve murdered or whatever the kids might think. I could get away with almost anything, I think. Oh, dear.
Heidi Wilcox:
How did you experience your call to ministry, because I’m guessing that might have been part of what led you to come to the States.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It did. My call to ministry was not a call to parish work as such, to be a pastor, which is where I ended up for the most part. I felt when I was a kid, the reason why I never wanted to become a Christian was because I saw God as the divine sport in the sky who would send me off to somewhere I didn’t want to go, and in particular it was Africa. Africa was the dark continent and I thought, “No, I don’t want to go there.” And so I never wanted to become a Christian. I wasn’t raised in a Christian home. I mean, my parents, my family, they’re wonderful, wonderful people, but they were not believers.
Heidi Wilcox:
So, before we get to your call story, let’s back up for just a minute. Not raised in a Christian home. How did you come to the faith?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Boy, that’s a good question. I think the simple answer is when I was 15, I joined a youth organization in a local Methodist church in Belfast, called Boys Brigade. It was like Boy Scouts, it was the precursor of scouting and we were basically subjected to Bible classes and all that kind of stuff, and there was one officer in particular who is a pied piper and he was just amazing. His name was Robert Roberts.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
One cold January night, after our parade was over, there was a group of us standing outside the church gate and he talked about the return of Christ. He frightened me to death. I don’t recommend this as a good tool for evangelism, to frighten people into the kingdom. But I’ve got to admit, I was frightened into the kingdom of God. And he was my spiritual father and so yeah, then I became a Christian. Yeah. Now, there were precursors, but that was the actual.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right, right. So then how did you move? You said you didn’t want to become a Christian because you were afraid of what you might have to do.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Right. If you had told me about, that God loved me, I could care less. And so that was why I was frightened into the kingdom.
Heidi Wilcox:
I think I was frightened into the kingdom too.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Were you?
Heidi Wilcox:
I think the sermons, I hated when they preached on hell fire and everything, because I was just sure that I was going there. Yeah. And so I was at the altar multiple times with my childhood, just to make sure that I wasn’t going to go there.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh my goodness. Well, for me, it wasn’t so much avoiding hell, it was avoiding Africa. I mean, I didn’t want to go to Africa. And then all of a sudden, after I made the decision, I thought to myself, “Oh, God help me. I may finish up in Africa now that I’m a Christian.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Right? So how did you then, because you didn’t know why you were afraid of where you might be called. I think a lot of people are afraid of what God might ask them to do when they accept him. I mean, I was, a little bit, about like, “What’s this going to mean?”
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
How did you then know you were called to missionary work or to be… You wound up being a pastor. How did you experience your call?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Glad to say it worked. It was a little missionary to China. They made a movie about her, The Inn of the Sixth Happiness. She is an amazing little English woman who worked in an orphanage in China. She visited Belfast and after the service was over, it was a youth rally, she had challenged us so much. This was an amazing woman of faith. It’s amazing the women who’ve been plain influence in my life, but she certainly was one. But 50 of us met afterwards and she sat us all down and she said, “Okay, you need to discover if God is calling. You don’t need to determine where at this point.” She used to say, “If God’s calling you somewhere and you don’t know where, get on a ship, any ship going anywhere.”
Dr. Alan Meenan:
She was amazing lady. And she said, “And if that ship is heading for India and God’s calling you to Africa, that ship’s going to break down in the middle of the Indian ocean and it’s going to dock in Mombasa.” I mean, she was totally amazing. She would get in a line, because she felt called of God to go to a certain place. She would get into a line for a ticket, a railway ticket or whatever, and she didn’t have the money to pay for the ticket when she got in the line. But by the time she got to the booth, someone, somehow paid for her ticket. I mean, she was an amazing lady this little lady. So when she said, “Ask God to give you a verse, because the devil will tell you’re not called and you need to have a verse.” And I thought, “Okay.”
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And then she said, “Ask for it within a week.” Now then, my ears, the antenna went up and I thought, “In one week’s time, I will be free forever, from the call of Africa.” And that excited me, and I thought… Because what are the chances, in one week, that God’s going to give you a verse? I mean, I thought, “I’m going to be free, forever.” So I got my knees on a Friday night and I said, “God, you’ve got a week. And if you don’t give me a verse within a week, I want you to know I’m off the hook. You can’t come back later and call me later. This is it Lord, see.” Well, that was a Friday night and on Saturday, my dearly devotions took me into Psalm 96, verse three. “Declare his glory among the nations. Say among all the people, that the Lord is king.”
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And I read it and I read it and I read it again. And the tears were rolling down my cheeks and I got down on my knees and I said, “Lord, I’ll go. But if you want to change your mind, it’s okay with me.” Well, he never changed his mind. And it was confirmed in many, many ways since then. When I was 19, I was influenced by a teacher in my high school to apply to an organization called Voluntary Service Overseas. It’s the British equivalent of Peace Corps. And I was in high school and I applied to them for the possibility of service overseas. After the interview is over, they said, “Now, if we were to send you overseas, where would you like to go?” So I said, “One of those pacific islands would be really nice.” Tahiti in particular, I mean, I’ve always wanted to go to Tahiti.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. We can sufferer for Jesus.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh, yes, indeed. That would be very nice. And I got a letter a week later saying, “Oh, we’ve chosen you and you’re going to Africa.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Really?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Big surprise. So I went when I was 19, I went to be a high school teacher. I had been a high school student one day and the next day I was a high school teacher. And I taught math and geography and religious knowledge and physical education.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. That’s a lot, your first year teaching.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It was, it was, it was great fun.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yeah. I Bet.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. It was life changing.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How so?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, I mean, having lived in just a city in Ireland and all of a sudden, the world opens up, and a whole different culture and different people, and I fell in love with Africa really and its people. And I just, yeah. I mean, my African friends tell me that if anyone pierces my skin I’ll bleed black.
Heidi Wilcox:
So, obviously, as you said, your heart changed toward Africa and so instead becoming a place that you didn’t want to go, it becomes a place that you love.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I longed to go. Yes, yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
How did you then get from there? Because eventually you came to Asbury Seminary.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I did, I did.
Heidi Wilcox:
And you went to university. How did you get all that-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
When I came back from Africa, I went to university in Belfast and finished my degree and felt… I did a degree in psychology and I thought, “Maybe I should be a psychologist.” And was basically running that possibility down, but I felt this niggling feeling that this call, because I thought, what good would a psychologist be in Africa back in the… That was 50 years ago.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So I met a friend, Billy Abraham, who was also a student at the university. We became fast buddies and he’d been influenced by a pastor in Ireland who had been to Asbury, and so he had set his sights in coming to Asbury. And when he learned that I was considering ministry, he encouraged me to come with him. So the two of us flew together to Boston and then down to Kentucky and here we were.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. What made you decide to stay in the States then?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh. At first I was terribly homesick. I was so homesick that I did my MDiv in two years.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s amazing.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I took overloads. I went to summer school. I wanted to go back, I wanted to go home. And then the little church, the little Presbyterian church in here in Wilmore asked me if I would preach. They had called a pastor and they wanted someone to fill in and they asked, “Is there any Presbyterians at Asbury seminary?” Now, I came to Asbury as a Methodist, I left as a Presbyterian.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s funny.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It is funny. Yeah, yeah. And I was asked to speak at senior week of graduation, and I told everybody that they had convinced me that I need to be a Presbyterian instead of Methodist. And everyone laughed, all the professors laughed. President Steiner was not amused.
Heidi Wilcox:
I feel like you’ve been quite the card throughout your entire life.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I guess, I guess. But the Presbyterian church here asked if there was a Presbyterian student and everybody said, “Oh, yes, there’s an Irish man here. So I preached there occasionally and then their pastor, the person they were calling that would be pastor, couldn’t come, and so they asked me if I’d be the pastor. So I became the pastor of the Wilmore Presbyterian Church, which was so much fun. It was so much fun because all the students started coming to the Presbyterian church. And David Siemens, who was the… I had joined the United Methodist Church in Wilmore, but I’d forgotten that I joined it. And David Siemens rapped in my door one day with my membership certificate and he said… I was the pastor of the Presbyterian church and he said, “Do you still want this?” It was so funny. But anyway, yeah. We became good friends, but, yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. That’s amazing. So you’ve pastored for, not here of course, but throughout your life in your ministry, for more than 40 years?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
So you couldn’t known that?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
No, I had no idea.
Heidi Wilcox:
And that was a little bit of a change in trajectory from… I mean, it’s still mission work, but it’s a different type of work.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. What happened actually was from here, I did my MDiv and then my THM here, and then I went to the University of Edinburgh, in Scotland, to do my PhD in Old Testament. And then further studied at Yale Divinity School as a research fellow. So, it all happened and when I was about to graduate with my PhD, I applied to about 20 missionary societies to go to Africa and I couldn’t get a job.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I’ve since talked to presidents of missionary societies who’ve told me that’s unbelievable, because for one reason or another, it was just God closing the door. And so after I finished Scotland, I married an American girl who’d attended Asbury College. We came back to America and I ministered, initially in Richmond, Virginia. Loved doing, and God just poured out his blessing upon that church and we experienced phenomenal growth. We were the fastest growing church in three states at one point. And then I went to Los Angeles for a time, and then to Texas, Amarillo, thoroughly enjoying parish ministry, but asking all the time, “God, why am I not in Africa?”
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s remarkable, since you didn’t want to go there.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
And what did he say?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I think he was saying to me, “You’re not ready. You’re not ready.” And then I was called to one of the biggest Presbyterian churches in the nation, at Hollywood Presbyterian Church in California. The irony of course is that, you need to remember, I’m just a kid from the streets of Belfast, just a little street urchin, and here I am, in one of the most prestigious pulpits in America, hobnobbing with all these celebrities and what have you. I mean, it was just… I never dreamed that the adventure with Christ would be this amazing. I love him so much, but the adventure with him has been just mind blowing.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. One of the things that I’m learning, that I think relates to your story, is my worth in Christ. Because when you said, “I was just a street kid from Belfast, and here I am at one of the most prestigious churches in the country.” I haven’t been there, but I’m from Eastern Kentucky and sometimes the things that I get to do or whatever, I feel intimidated by because I’m like, “Oh, I’m just a girl from Eastern Kentucky.” So what did you-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
But you’re a child of the king, aren’t you?
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. That’s what I’m learning and that’s what matters. Not what I do or whatever. So what did you have to learn about your own worth, to be comfortable where God was called… To be able to serve to your best and be comfortable with in those environments?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, I hate to confess this publicly. Maybe I shouldn’t, but there was a time, because the churches… It seemed that everything I was touching kept turning to gold and I got waylaid spiritually in thinking that this was me.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh. I was wondering, I was going to ask you about that, because that doesn’t seem you now and I was curious if that had always-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
No. I thought, “I must be great.” And it was not good and God just, over a period of time, and it’s too long a story to get into, but over a period of time, he let me know that this wasn’t about me, this was all about him. And I think once I came to that full realization, I was in a place of genuine humility and dependence on him and could enjoy my life in a totally different way. That it didn’t depend on me, it was completely his. And I kept telling him, that if ever he wanted to sideline me or anything, because one of John Wesley’s great prayers was that if God wanted to sideline him, by all means do it, but then that was okay because I would just go and buy a hammock and string it up between two palm trees and-
Heidi Wilcox:
In Tahiti?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Preferably in Tahiti, yeah, yeah. And just listen to my Beethoven records and all the rest of it and just relax and enjoy life. But, yeah. It’s such a great pleasure serving him.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
He’s a great, great boss.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, yes. So, in addition to pastoring for 40 years, you’re also the founder and director of The Word Is Out.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So, how did that get started?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I mean, the precursors were in Virginia.
Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. So while you were pastoring then?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got up once someday and I told the congregation, “Please turn to the book of Zephaniah.” And they looked at me like I had five hands. And I said, “My goodness, they don’t even know there’s a book in the Bible called Zephaniah.” And I went home and I thought about that. And I thought, Presbyterians were supposed to be a people of the book. They used to be known as a people of the book. Well, they weren’t a people of the book anymore if they didn’t even know Zephaniah was a book in the Bible.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So, I decided I needed to teach them, and we started a Bible study. Now, the interesting thing was… That Bible study, by the way, translated from Richmond, Virginia, to Los Angeles and then to Amarillo and then to Hollywood. And we started and we started in Virginia with about 12 people coming on a Wednesday night. By the time we got to Hollywood, on a Wednesday night, we had more than 700 people coming to the Bible study.
Heidi Wilcox:
How did you manage that?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
That’s another story on another self. But the thing that I want to say, is that the transformation of that happened to me here at Asbury.
Heidi Wilcox:
Really?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
When I came to Asbury, I thought I have a pretty working knowledge of the Bible and all the rest of it. But when I sat in some of the classes, in particular, the class of Dr. Robert Traina, I realized I knew nothing, and every class was a spiritual high. It was a spiritual adventure. And at the end of the class, I would sit and just bathe in what he had said.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So, his technique of biblical study was the inductive method. And so basically I took that methodology that he taught us, and he walked us through the Pentateuch, he walked us through the gospels, he walked us through the book of Romans, and I basically carried that technique throughout my entire ministry in studying books, and then I began to share that with the congregations. And we did these Bible studies, I mean, the interesting thing is we broke all the rules.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
These Bible studies, we announced, are going to last 10 weeks, and we’re going to cover this amount of material. We’re going to cover the entire Pentateuch or we’re going to cover whatever, the wisdom books or whatever the case might be, or the synoptic gospels. 10 weeks, and you’re going to have homework every night of the 10 weeks, and we’re going to give you an exam at the end of the 10 weeks. Now, do you think anybody in their right minds would want to attend that? Late people. And yet they came out in their hundreds.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, because they wanted to know.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
They wanted to know. And people would come to me and say, “We don’t go to church, but we want to hear what the Bible means and has to say.” But it was the technique that I learned here in Asbury that informed the way I approached that. So, it was not so much the instructor or the teacher, in this case me, as it was the technique that people responded to.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And they responded to in their hundreds.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. So if people, at the seminary, I think a lot of people are familiar with the term inductive Bible study.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
But for those who aren’t familiar it, could you walk us through what that method is?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
In the time allotment that we have, no. But what I would say is this, essentially, most people going to the Bible, will go with baggage. Basically, they will be telling the Bible what it says. The inductive methodology allows you to hear what the Bible has to say rather than telling it what it says.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, so it’s…
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And also it’s contextual.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. That’s what I was going to say.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. The contextual in this sense, when a person sits down to read a novel, they start at chapter one and they read through to the end. When we go to the Bible, we reverse a passage here and a passage somewhere else, and a passage… You don’t read a novel like that.
Heidi Wilcox:
No.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
You don’t read page three and then you turn to page 47 and end to page 131 and then back to page 59. It’s the same kind of thing. So it’s seeing a particular passage within its context and asking of the passage, “What is the writer,” we call him the implied writer, what the implied writer is attempting to communicate, and what tools is he using to communicate? And why is he selecting these particular stories? Because as John says, there are many other things that Jesus did that are not included in this book. I have selected these for this purpose.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So there’s a sense in which we want to know why certain events were selected, what space was given to them, why they’re juxtaposed, what is the relationship between them? What is the writer trying to do? And if we can get to the mind of the writer as best we can, then we get to a place of understanding. And that was appealing to people out there in the PA.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, for sure. Definitely.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So then, The Word Is Out, even if it wasn’t called The Word Is Out in Virginia, California and Texas, it was obviously getting started and growing.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
I think it launched officially in 2005.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It did, that’s correct.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So how did it get to that point and then to where we are today?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, it’s like a moving train that was going out of the station and I’m running to try to catch up with it. I mean, that’s how it happened. There was never any grandiose idea of doing it, it was a little congregation, it wasn’t a little congregation, but it was a congregation in Richmond, Virginia, who didn’t know the Bible, and it was an attempt to help them understand. That’s how it started. It was just a parochial idea. It was for that church, and then it began to grow and grow and grow and then other people, because people started coming to it, people from other churches would come and we told them, “We don’t want you coming to this church, we want you staying with your church, but you’re welcome to come for a Bible study.” Because I had people of all religious persuasions coming.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
In fact, we had so many Episcopalians in Amarillo, Texas, I used to tease them during the lessons. If I made fun of anybody, it was always the Episcopalians and they loved it, they loved the notoriety of it. And it was all done and good fun.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yes, for sure.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And everybody laughed and we all had fun with the whole thing. But yeah, I mean, the idea of what we were doing was was so appealing that people got engaged in, because that’s what we’re really about, it’s the engagement with text, not just the reading of the Bible, but the engagement with it.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I think that’s, at least I know from my own life, that is what is often missing to understand, not the hidden meaning, but to understand what the text is really trying to say.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. What the old rabbis used to call the past shot of the text, which means the plan unadulterated meaning. And then what happened was, as this thing grew and people got interested from other… We started getting letters from missionaries saying, “Can we have the material?” And so we start sending material, we start producing material and all of a sudden it began taking a life to itself.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And then because in Hollywood with so many professionals, we were able to do a lot more and with beautiful study guides produced and eventually we bought tables so that everybody could sit at a table and then eventually we couldn’t get all the tables into the worship center, so we had to move back into the sanctuary because we just couldn’t accommodate the number of people coming. And they were excited about the word. They weren’t excited about the church per se. They weren’t excited about the preacher per se. They were excited about the word itself.
Heidi Wilcox:
Amazing.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It was amazing.
Heidi Wilcox:
It is amazing.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. And even to this day, it’s hard to fathom.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. Because now, I forget, it’s eight or nine continents that you guys are established on?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes, yes. We’ve been doing conferences and attempting… Our desire is to set up centers for biblical understanding.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh right. And I want to make a correction. I said continents, I meant countries. I know how many continents there are. I think I said eight or nine.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
You did.
Heidi Wilcox:
It can’t possibly be that.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
That right. I think there are five, is it five continents, or seven or something? I don’t know.
Heidi Wilcox:
We are struggling with geography, but anyway I meant countries, that’s what I meant.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Good.
Heidi Wilcox:
Anyway, but yes. You were saying about the centers for biblical understanding that you have set up.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Which is training centers to-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes. What we’re trying to do is, we go and we conduct conferences and so on, and then we go and teach in institutions. And then we go through a selection process and we take indigenous students, pastors, potentially pastors or students. We’ve brought them to the United States, we have brought them to Asbury, where they’re indoctrinated in IBS methodology. And then they go back to their homeland and they train pastors.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
The growth of the Christian church in Africa today is phenomenal. Statisticians, missiologists have told us that something like 22,000 people join the church in Africa every single day. 22-
Heidi Wilcox:
It’s incredible.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
365 days a year.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s incredible.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
It is incredible, but we’re losing 18,000 of them a day, which is also really, really bad. The situation in Africa though, is that by the turn of the 20th century in 1900, there were 10 million Christians in the whole continent, 10 million. But the turn of the 21st century, just 20 years ago, there were 360 million Christians in Africa, the entire population of the United States, Christian in Africa.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So the growth has been phenomenal and is phenomenal, but the pastors are not trained, are badly trained. I mean, I needed to say there are some really good schools there, and I’ve taught at some of those schools, but there aren’t enough of them for the kind of growth that is happening. And so pastors are getting up and they’re not trained at all or they’re badly trained, and so we are thinking, “Is there one thing that we can contribute to help the church in Africa grow?” And the answer, it would be, if there’s only one thing to do, let’s help them interpret scripture better. And that’s what we do.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So how have you seen, as you’ve developed, I think the first center for biblical understanding that you developed or The Word Is Out developed was in Africa, Zambia.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
How have you seen this change individuals and then go on to change the community there?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
That center is run by a Zambian, Lyle Zulu.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. I’ll link to things that we talk about in the show notes, for the podcast, but I got to chat with him.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh, you did.
Heidi Wilcox:
We did a feature story on him.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Okay. Great, great.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wonderful.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And he came here, he was trained and he’s gone back and has established a center and we conduct conferences there to raise awareness so that we get more students in the place. And he’s got nice students who are working at level four, an advanced level of IBS. And that in turn these pastors… And the center probably now boasts of, my guess would be about 40, 50 people, who attended at one level or the other. And they’re almost all pastors or bishops. Of course, an African Bishop is different from our understanding in the West. And tho those folk would represent thousands and thousands of parishioners. So yeah. I mean, what we have in our group of trained men and women who are accurately dividing the word of God.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. And rightly discipling people in their communities too.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes, yes, yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Have you seen this change, lessen the number of people who are, I don’t know how to say, not becoming, unbecoming Christians? Like there was 22,000, I think you said, per day.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
And then-
Dr. Alan Meenan:
We’re losing 18,000.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Have you seen that kind of help as people learned how to practice their faith and live it out?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
We’re seeing it more in terms of the kind of ministry that is being produced from the pulpits and this is going to be a long term vision. So I think, yes. I mean, certainly people are responding in Africa and I’m also teaching in India and and various other places. And this is having an effect, not only on the pastors themselves, on the person’s train, but certainly on their congregations.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
But unfortunately, I mean, this is just the tip of the iceberg, and that’s the thing that is overwhelmed. The task is overwhelming because we’re training in Zambia, maybe 40 pastors. But there are millions of people in that country and millions of Christians in that country, and the task of getting more pastors trained is an immense challenge. Yeah. And we don’t have the kind of resources available to us, both personnel wise, or financially to do what needs to be done, but God has been gracious thus far.
Heidi Wilcox:
If people want to partner with The Word Is Out, is the best way to get in touch with you guys through your website?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I think it’s the best way.
Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. All right.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
www.thewordisout.com.
Heidi Wilcox:
All right.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
We’ll link that in the show notes.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Wonderful. Okay.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. So we have one question that we ask everyone who comes on the show.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
But before we do, is there anything else you’d like to talk about that I didn’t know to ask you?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh, no. You’ve asked so much. I’ve really enjoyed this time, I didn’t think I was going to.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, I’m so glad hear that. I’ve enjoyed well.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
This is good, yeah. Good.
Heidi Wilcox:
I’ve enjoyed your stories.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Wonderful, wonderful.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So our one question that we ask everyone, because the show is called the Thrive With Asbury Seminary podcast, what is one practice or habit that is helping you thrive in your life right now?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Can I give you more than one or does it have to be just-
Heidi Wilcox:
No, we’re limited to just [inaudible 00:37:55]. Absolutely, absolutely.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I think there are a few things for me, both down to earth and other worldly. The kind of things that… Living in Ireland has its bonuses. I mean, it is, as you said, it’s a beautiful country.
Heidi Wilcox:
It is beautiful.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And I have purchased a little apartment, maybe not so little, but an apartment, right on the water. And so, the joy of just sitting at the window and looking out in various weather conditions, across the loch to the Kells of Antrim, and I can even see Scotland on a good day. It’s just inspirational. I’ve often said, people will come and they’ll say, “Wow, this is an amazing view.” And I’ll say, “Yeah, I actually bought the view, the apartment came with it.” Because it’s inspiring.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
To just sit there and meditate and soak it in, to open my Bible and just the quiet, there is something that is refreshing to the spirit. And whether it’s prayer, whether it’s study or whether it’s meditation or whether it’s just gazing night at that… If I got tired of that view, I would be tired of life. It is just lovely and I wallow in it, it’s great. The other thing is, being in Ireland, everybody walks everywhere.
Heidi Wilcox:
Really?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. Yeah. So, I’ve never walked so much in all my life, because I’m used being an American now, they drive everywhere.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. We’re very spoiled and unhealthy.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Oh, it’s lovely though, it’s lovely. I love driving in a car. But in Ireland, I mean, the coffee bar is just a block away and the restaurants are just a short distance and the marina is there and they’re… In fact, there’s a walk along the water’s edge. You can walk for 15 miles, all the way to Belfast, just along the water’s edge.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, that’s lovely.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And yeah. So, walking has been lovely, just breathing and what have you. So, yeah. Thriving spiritually, thriving physically, and I’m an old man now, at least the mirror tells me I’m an old man. But I don’t think that I’m an old man, I feel just… And every time I look in the mirror, I think, “Who is that person?” I mean, it’s just [inaudible 00:41:00].
Heidi Wilcox:
So I said that this was the last question, but also, you are part of a podcast, is that right?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yes. So that’s another way to hook into The Word Is Out. We do do our own podcasts, but basically the podcast, how would you say? IBS approaches to various books of the Bible. So it’s actually reflections on particular books of the Bible, and we’ve got several already done and we’re building on them as we go along. Eventually we want to do all 66 books. So yeah, that would be another way of plugging into what we’re doing, just to listen and yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Well, definitely, yeah.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
That gives you an idea of exactly what IBS is about and how we analyze books in a relaxed situation.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You can drink coffee and listen.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
You can.
Heidi Wilcox:
When you’re done listening to that, you can hop on over and listen to The Word Is Out podcast.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
That’s right. You can, you can. Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So, I want to ask you this too, because of what you said about what you’re doing that makes you thrive. And I just am curious, in your years of ministry, what do you know about God now that you didn’t know, maybe even five years ago, but certainly not even at the beginning?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I think there is a greater confidence and sense of who he is and that he really is in control of everything. Now, one would always affirm that even from the beginning, but because I often… I’ll come across Christians who will talk about, they will despair and believe me, the Irish church is struggling at the moment and I’m trying to… Their heads are drooping, they’re discouraged in so many ways and I’m encouraging them that that lovely prayer of Jesus, you remember when he prays to the father, “Father glorify your name.” I love how God responded to him, when he said, “I have glorified my name, but I’m going to do it again.”
Dr. Alan Meenan:
And it’s that “again.” I love that word again. I’m going to do it again. And so I’m telling the Irish church that God is going to do it again. And it’s because he’s on the throne, and it doesn’t depend upon the efforts. I mean, of course they need to preach like everything depends on them, but pray like everything depends on God.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
So there’s a sense in which that particular… Because, again, when I was a young minister, I mean, I thought it was my efforts that were, you know. So it is this kind of growing understanding, that we have a God who rules the universe and ultimately, and finally he’s in control. It doesn’t matter who’s in the white house. It doesn’t matter which party is in government. It doesn’t matter if Russia is misbehaving. I mean, of course these things matter.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right. Of course, yes.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
But ultimately and finally, the older I get, the more at peace I am with a sense that, here is a God who rules the world and that we can be confident in that. And it doesn’t matter really what is going on, because we have someone who’s really in charge. And I think that’s mind blowing in so many ways.
Heidi Wilcox:
It is. How do you live like that? Because like you said, I’m in my 30s. So I say, God is in control, but it’s more a here level.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
What was that like for you to then start living like God is in control?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, it’s because the older you get, the more you experience it and the more you sense it to be the case and the more you just want exactly and your life begins. You see so much things in your life that… My mother, who was not a believer initially, by the way, if I could just include a quick here.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, for sure. I mean, I’ve told you we’re on the last question, so include all you want.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Well, my mother, she wasn’t a believer, she was a lovely, lovely lady. But she was shopping one day in Belfast and she met an old friend and the old friend said, “Oh, Mrs. Meenan, nice to see, how are you doing? I haven’t seen you in ages. How’s your family.” And so my mother would say, “Well, my daughter’s doing nursing.” And then she said, “My son is a minister.” And this lady said to her, “Mrs. Meenan, I never knew you were religious.” And of course she wasn’t religious.
Heidi Wilcox:
Right?
Dr. Alan Meenan:
But that question from a stranger set her thinking and she went home and she thought, “If my son is a minister, I should at least be going to church.” And so she started going to the local Methodist church and became a believer.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
You see?
Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
She used to tell me as a child, no matter what happened. You know when a child will run to his mom and say… My mother would just put her arms around me and she would always say, “It’s going to be all right.” And as long as my mom said that, I believed it. My mother’s long since gone and support systems have gone, friends have died, but there’s someone who comes to me and puts his arms around me and tells me, “It’s going to be all right. It’s going to be right.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah. So, that, for me, would be the thing that I most sense now in my life. I mean, I believed it with my mind, but because of the experiences of life and seeing him at every turn and twist and turn, hey, I’m totally confident, you know?
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
I heard the other day someone said that his uncle was dying. And his uncle said to him, as he died, that he was sure of two things. He was sure that there was life after death. And he was sure of the trustworthiness of Jesus. Now, normally we say, there’s only two things in life, certain death and taxes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
No. Life after death and the trustworthiness of Jesus.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s beautiful.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for our conversation today.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
You’re welcome.
Heidi Wilcox:
It’s been an absolute delight.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Thank you. It’s lovely meeting you too.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Thank you.
Dr. Alan Meenan:
Thanks.
Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Alan Meenan. Isn’t he just a delight you guys? I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed and learned from this conversation, and I hope you did as well. I just want to encourage you to check out The Word Is Out website and their podcast, all of which I will link to in the show notes. And just take a look at the inductive Bible study method and how learning to truly study the word of God might actually change your life. As always, you can follow Asbury Seminary in all the places on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, Asbury Seminary. Until next time, I hope you’ll go do something that helps you thrive.
