Thrive
Podcast

Overview

Today on the podcast, I’m joined by Deanna Lynn and Kristina Osborne. Together they authored and ghost-wrote Integrated: Living Beyond the Sex Trade. In a previous episode of Thrive, Deanna shares her story of how she overcame her traumatic upbringing that eventually led to her escaping a 10-year career in the sex industry. Upon exiting the industry, she found Refuge for Women, a place she can heal specifically from the trauma of exploitation. After graduating from their program in 2012, she earned a master’s degree from Asbury Seminary and has authored two books. The second, “Integrated,” I already mentioned and the first is Purchased: Leaving the Sex Trade. Each book details a piece of Deanna’s story.

Kristina is also an alum of Asbury Seminary, as well as Asbury University. She now serves as an associate pastor of Embrace Church in Lexington, Ky. In addition to fulfilling her pastoral calling in the diverse and loving community of Embrace, she also lives out her calling to be a storyteller for the kingdom through her own original music. She processes and proclaims her faith in a singer-songwriter style, which is vocal and acoustic driven, layered with scripture references and personal experiences. Her most recent release, Once More Arise, includes topics such as Eucharist, rest, waiting and lament. Kristina also partners with others as she did with Deanna to share their stories through ghostwriting and she shares the story of God as a preacher and speaker in worshipping communities at retreats and conferences.

In today’s conversation, we talk about Deanna’s new book “Integrated: Living Beyond the Sex Trade,” Kristina’s new EP, “Once More Arise,” how Kristina’s and Deanna’s lives intertwined so that this book became their next right thing and what it means to engage in practices that help us live integrated lives so we can be truly free.

Let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Deanna Lynn & Kristina Osborn,
Author. Asbury Seminary Grad. Wife & Mom
Singer-songwriter & and Associate Pastor at Embrace Church in Lexington, Kentucky

Deanna Lynn overcame a traumatic upbringing that eventually led to escaping a ten-year career in the sex industry. Upon exiting the industry, she found Refuge for Women, a place she could heal specifically from the trauma of exploitation. After graduating from their program in 2012, she earned a master’s degree from Asbury Theological Seminary and authored two books, detailing each piece of her journey. Deanna loves learning and will likely be a student for life. She and her husband Matt live in Kentucky and spoil their twin baby girls and their dog Buddy, who looks like a real-life giant Muppet. She is a global speaker on the topic of living a truly rewarding life after rescue from the sex industry.

An alumnus of both Asbury University (B.A.) and Asbury Theological Seminary (M.Div., M.A.), Kristina now serves as an Associate Pastor at Embrace Church in Lexington, Kentucky. In addition to fulfilling her pastoral calling in the diverse and loving community of Embrace, Kristina also lives out her calling to be a storyteller for the Kingdom through her own original music. She processes and proclaims her faith in a singer/songwriter style, which is vocal and acoustic-driven, layered both with Scriptural references and personal experience. Kristina’s first original songs poured out of her in the same season she first recognized a call on her life into ministry, and they continue to be one of her greatest tools for communicating the struggle, surrender, and joy of the sanctification journey. Her most recent release, “Once More Arise,” explores topics including Eucharist, rest, waiting, and lament. Kristina also partners with others to tell their stories through ghostwriting, and she shares the Story of God as a preacher and speaker in gathered worshipping communities, at retreats, and conferences. Kristina and her husband Ted live in North Lexington with their two adorable pups, Lucy and Jax.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.



Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders and people just like you, who are looking to connect on your passion and meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast I’m joined by Deanna Lynn and Kristina Osborn. Together they authored and ghost wrote Integrated Living Beyond The Sex Trade.

Heidi Wilcox:
In a previous episode of Thrive, Deanna shares her story of how she overcame her traumatic upbringing that eventually led to escaping a 10 year career in the sex industry. Upon exiting the industry she found refuge for women, a place she can heal specifically from the trauma of exploitation. After graduating from their program in 2012, shared a master’s degree from Asbury Seminary and has authored two books. The second Integrated already mentioned, and the first is Purchased Leaving The Sex Trade. Each book details a piece of Deanna’s story.

Heidi Wilcox:
Kristina is also an alum of Asbury Seminary, as well as Asbury University. She now serves as an associate pastor at Embrace Church in Lexington, Kentucky. In addition to fulfilling her pastoral calling and the diverse and loving community of Embrace, she also lives out her calling to be a storyteller for the kingdom through her own original music. She processes and proclaims her faith in a singer songwriter style, which is vocal and acoustic driven, layered with both scripture references and personal experiences.

Heidi Wilcox:
Her most recent release, Once More Arise, explores topics, including Eucharist, rest, waiting and lament. Kristina also partners with others as she did with Deanna to share their stories through ghost writing. And she shares the story of God as a preacher and speaker in gathered worshiping communities at retreats and conferences.

Heidi Wilcox:
In today’s conversation we talk about Deanna’s new book Integrated Living Beyond The Sex Trade. Kristina’s new EP Once More Arrives, how Kristina and Deanna’s lives intertwined so that this book became their next right thing and what it means to engage in practices that help us live integrated lives so we can be truly free. Well, let’s listen. Thank you guys so much for being on the Thrive Podcast today. It’s really a delight to have you both here.

Kristina Osborn:
Thank you so much for having us.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
Thanks for bringing me back.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So why don’t we just start and have each of you introduce yourselves briefly so people can recognize the voices that they’re hearing because they can’t see your lovely faces like I can. So Kristina, can we start with you?

Kristina Osborn:
Sure. So my name is Kristina Osborn and I am an alum of Asbury Seminary. I actually met Deanna here on campus and I am currently serving as an associate pastor at Embrace Church in Lexington, Kentucky.

Heidi Wilcox:
Awesome. Deanna, tell us a little bit about you and welcome back to the podcast by the way.

Deanna Lynn:
Thank you. My name is Deanna and I am a graduate of Asbury Seminary class of 2017. My husband is also a graduate, in 2018 he graduated. He is a chaplain at a hospital and I have recently become a mom of twin girls and have gotten to author two books.

Heidi Wilcox:
Awesome. Yes. So for our listeners who didn’t listen to your first episode, they can go back and listen to it. We’ll list it in the show notes so that they can easily find it if they’d like to know the first part of your story to join that with what we’re going to talk about today. So how did you guys meet?

Deanna Lynn:
Sure. So Kristina actually, I got to work on the health and wellness team since about 2014. I think about December of 2014, I had been on the campus health and wellness team and she was one of my clients and those relationships are very, very dear to me because I honor the trust that people place in me, not only with their physical care, but any other things that come up while we’re in there. And that trust ended up going both ways as I was doing this journey to writing this book.

Kristina Osborn:
So I really had never had a personal training relationship before. I was really nervous going into it.

Heidi Wilcox:
For sure.

Kristina Osborn:
And Deanna is just so great at setting people at ease and has this spirit of hospitality. And so I quickly felt like I could trust her, not just with that journey, but we shared parts of our life during training. And it was actually a while into the relationship that she mentioned she was writing a book and I was like, “oh, that’s really cool.” And the day that she asked me to partner with her, I was totally taken aback because as far as I knew, she had no idea that I would be interested in doing something like that or that I would even have a skill set to do something like that.

Kristina Osborn:
And so when she asked me, I was at first really shocked and then really honored. And it obviously felt like a God thing to me because she didn’t know that information. And she had said the same thing that God kind of highlighted her, I think is what you said or highlighted me to you.

Heidi Wilcox:
So why did you decide to partner together? Like if you didn’t know her skillset, Deanna, like how did that come about?

Deanna Lynn:
My book was actually an editing and the editor had sent it back and it said that I needed to… She wanted me to explore a type of creative writing to help bring people into some of the scenarios. And while I am good at giving people the facts, I didn’t really know how to communicate everything that I was feeling let alone, to be honest I don’t know that until Kristina. I really connected to some of the feelings that I felt.

Deanna Lynn:
And so I remember feeling like I was supposed to bring it up to her. And the reason I did was because I felt like I could trust her with the details of my story. And I just asked if she would be interested in maybe rewriting some of the scenes in each chapter and then the holy spirit just unleashed off a whole other something [inaudible 00:06:17].

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. It was really surprising and honoring, but also the holy spirit has been present in the whole process. And I’ve been able to look back through my own life and recognize like, “oh, these are experiences that maybe prepared me to recognize this kind of gifting in myself.” As a kid, I would write my own poems and then make anthologies and bind them together and then present them to my family members.

Kristina Osborn:
I always wanted to write a book as a kid and I sat down and started so many times and I would get the beginning of the story and then I would lose steam and I’d be like, “I don’t have a whole story idea.” So the idea of helping somebody else’s story come to life has just been really beautiful to me. And I feel like the Lord has been preparing me for that and giving me a love for that and I didn’t know until Deanna.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s awesome. I love how we can look back at our lives, especially I think often it’s related to our careers and we can see those giftings in what we like to do as children. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You have described yourself as a storyteller for the kingdom. Obviously this gift was a long time coming. How did you actually recognize to come to call yourself that? Because that’s part of knowing who you are.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. That really has come out of this relationship with Deanna.

Heidi Wilcox:
Really?

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. So I knew that I was a songwriter. I would have told you I was a songwriter before I met Deanna, but it was through this process of entering into her story with her and seeing the Lord just breathe new life into the story and our relationship that I really realized, it’s not just me telling my own story. It’s not just me telling God’s story, but stories is a big part of who I am and how I’ve been created to exist in the world.

Kristina Osborn:
And so even at Embrace during the pandemic, we were looking for new ways to tell people stories. And that was something that I was really passionate about doing. And so I got to work one-on-one with lots of different individuals in our community to help them prepare to share their story at an outdoor gathering we did weekly during the summers. And so working with Deanna sparked these different ideas in lots of areas of my life, where I was able to say, so what does it look like for me to help people’s stories come to life here?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Kristina Osborn:
And what does it look like for me to be honest about this part of my story, or to make sure that everybody knows this part of God’s story. And so I feel like my call to ministry, I’ve gotten to do a lot of random things and I feel like I have a lot of different talents that the Lord has allowed me to use at different points. And it’s in meeting Deanna that I saw them come together under this umbrella of story. And I was able to say, oh, well, songwriting is a tool. And biblical preaching is a tool. And now ghost writing is a tool that the Lord has given me to be a storyteller for the kingdom.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I love that. I love how excited you are about it for one thing. Yeah. I want to hear more about your song writing. You released a new… Is it a single, extended play?

Kristina Osborn:
It’s actually an extended play.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. There’s six songs on it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Awesome. And it’s called, Once More Arise?

Kristina Osborn:
Yes. That’s actually the title track on the album and that one’s actually about the Eucharist. So it was a really fun one to write. I hadn’t necessarily tried to dive into classical themes before and a lot of it had been devotional like processing through my personal relationship with God. And I felt like when I wrote the communion song, it was something that I could share with the wider community of faith and actually was able to play it in chapel at the seminary at one point.

Heidi Wilcox:
Really?

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s awesome.

Kristina Osborn:
That was me. So I released an EP when I finished at Asbury University. So probably five years ago, six years ago now, I suppose. And that was my first professional release. And then the Lord began putting a new one on my heart about a year before I met Deanna.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Kristina Osborn:
And I felt like the Lord said, “you have more story to tell, I’ve given you more songs and they actually fit together. And I know that this is a passion of yours and you should keep pursuing it.” And so I was like, “okay, God, I’m open to that, but you’re going to have to make it happen because that takes money and it takes time. And I don’t have a lot of either of those things.” And so then I felt like he just started opening doors. And actually that was one of the really honoring parts of working with Deanna too, is her joy to be able to compensate me for this. So I’m a two on the Enneagram.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Kristina Osborn:
So I’m a helper.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. I’m a six.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah, that’s great. So when she asked me initially if I wanted to help my internal two was like, “yes, help. That is exactly what I do.” And so my instinct was to say like, “I’ll just tell help, you don’t have to pay me for this.” And I might have said that, I don’t know. I don’t know how we talked about money at first.

Deanna Lynn:
I felt like you weren’t going to accept compensation. And so I was like, “maybe I could get her gifts. Do you guys want new running shoes.” But then she allowed me to invest into her ministry.

Kristina Osborn:
Right. So I felt like the Lord said to me, “you need funds to do this music that I’ve put on your heart.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Kristina Osborn:
“Deanna wants to compensate you, allow these ministries to come to life together.” And so that was really honoring for me that she wanted to compensate me and then really beautiful that the Lord brought me to this place of recognizing he can fund both of our ministries.

Heidi Wilcox:
So it was because of your work with Deana that you were able to release Once More Arise.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. That was definitely a portion of it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That’s so cool. Deanna, you’re really vulnerable in your books and that’s something I appreciate about your writing very much, is your desire to help people. How was sharing your story with Kristina part of the healing process for you?

Deanna Lynn:
So when I started Asbury seminary, it was really difficult because I felt like I had finally come into this place in my life where I could go after dreams that I didn’t even know existed or were possible. But I wasn’t really sure what to do with all that had came before me. And coming to a school where a lot of people had grown up in the church and I didn’t relate to a lot of the conversations that were happening around the lunch table, it was quite the journey for me to understand like when and where to share different parts of myself, but being on the wellness team and getting to work with people side by side in their own wellness journey, as a holistic practitioner, we’d look at the body, the mind, the spirit everything that goes with.

Deanna Lynn:
And so being able to have people be vulnerable with me, it was just an honor to realize like, “Oh my goodness, some parts of my story actually would be helpful on campus,” because as much as I’d love to say that every student came in sanctified, I had went to the refuge for women before coming to seminary and I realized that Asbury Seminary was like a refuge for a lot of people here. It was where the transformation started happening. It was where God started pruning and shedding all the dead wood that wasn’t going to be fruitful in their ministry. And because I had already gone through that process, I was able to share that with other students.

Deanna Lynn:
And I just appreciated Christina’s authenticity, her heart and I felt like she was somebody that I could bring in because she was so authentic and trustworthy and that’s really hard to find somebody with that sweet of a spirit. And I knew there wasn’t going to be any judgment or anything and her being a songwriter, I feel like my life is a song back to God. And so I knew-

Heidi Wilcox:
Interesting.

Deanna Lynn:
… that she would do something beautiful with it even though I didn’t have all the pieces yet, I just was like, I took the next step.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. What is the ghost writing process like?

Deanna Lynn:
Well, the first book in Purchased, it was like, gosh, I can’t even describe. So I would send her the chapters and I would highlight, “okay, I think this is the scene that I really want to bring people into.” And she would just pray and send me something back. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, that’s exactly what I experienced there. Oh my gosh, you described that person exactly.” Somebody she had never met before.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Deanna Lynn:
And I was like, “how is this possible.” Now, for the first book, typically like a ghost writer is somebody who remains anonymous and all of that stuff. But I really wanted to honor her, I just wasn’t sure with my first book being so, not necessarily explicit, but a pretty heavy topic and her doing her song writing I wasn’t sure if that was a good decision to be like public with that yet. But by the time we got to the second book I was like, “I want to bring you in from the beginning and I want to honor the work that she’s done in bringing the story to life.” And so that’s what it was like for me.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah, so the process was really beautiful is the best way I could describe it. And the Lord just walked us through it. I think neither one of us knew what we were doing, it was the first time thing. So, I would just pray a very simple prayer. I would center myself, but when I opened a chapter that she sent me and I would just pray, “okay, holy spirit, give me insight, give me insight into what she experienced and what she felt and what this did to her because I wasn’t there, but you were.”

Kristina Osborn:
And so every time I encounter a chapter Deanna has spent some time with, that’s where I start. And I feel like the Lord does give me insight. And as I read some of the facts and the words that she’s put together to tell the story I feel like the layers of it just unfold before me and it turns into a finished chapter.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
The other thing that’s really helpful about having her involved is, somebody who doesn’t have a background like mine may not understand some of the slang, or the terms or something that makes sense to me because I’ve been in recovery for so long, phrases and I don’t want to say cliches, one liners and stuff, may completely be lost on an audience that’s not in recovery. And so she would send things back like, “I’m not really sure where you’re going with this” or, “I’m not sure that this is even necessary. It’s distracting from the point.” And I really needed someone to do that because for me, I just had to get it all out on paper and-

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, for sure.

Deanna Lynn:
… someone else to come alongside and say, “okay, here, let’s keep this part. And the rest is important, but maybe for a blog.” I don’t know.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. And then I think the second book was a little bit different process too, because I came in at the beginning. And so we actually also were able to talk together about what the progression of the book was going to look like. So I think you had a first chapter initially that is now chapter six or seven.

Deanna Lynn:
Seven. I wanted to go straight in to something that is like what I would consider somebody’s worst fear with a story like mine and I wanted to go straight in and then unraveled the book from there. And also I really liked the show This Is Us and how they go in and out of different things. But she was like, “what if we just start a little bit sooner than that.”

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
And so I’d be like, “okay, this is chapter one.” And I’m like, “Nope, that’s chapter four.” So yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
So you had a ghost writer and editor all wrapped into one.

Deanna Lynn:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
And in the book you guys have, I’m going to say you guys, because you co-write, not co-writing, but you’re in the process together. Some of the struggles and formational events, Deanna, you talked about realizing they’re healthy parts of maturing and not necessarily all the results of trauma and brokenness, although some yes. But I just know in my conversations with you, because we’re friends off the podcast, I’m like, “oh, I’m learning that too. I’m struggling to do this or listen to God’s voice more or to be kind to my husband sometimes.” All the things.

Heidi Wilcox:
So many students and people in general, I think I’m not the only one who struggles with school relationships or basic life skills. So Kristina, since she didn’t come from a background like Deanna’s, what are some ways that you can relate to Deanna’s story or the principles in her book even though your lives before now were different?

Kristina Osborn:
Well, Deanna just does such a great job of being really vulnerable and open about [crosstalk 00:18:58].

Heidi Wilcox:
She does, doesn’t she?

Kristina Osborn:
… process. Yeah. So I think that’s a gift to anybody who reads the book because not very often do we find someone who’s willing to sit down with us and say like, “this is what happens inside me when I face blank in life.” And I think that is a gift and it’s something that we all need. And because those internal processes are similar, no matter what our backgrounds are, I think anybody who picks up this book can really benefit from… She focuses a lot on what it looks like to have healthy relationships all across the spectrum. So female friendships, what does it look like to have a healthy relationship as a single woman talking to a single guy? What does it look like to have a healthy engagement and marriage? And then how does it look to operate professionally in a workplace? And I mean, all of those are questions that like you said, are a normal part of maturing.

Kristina Osborn:
And so I would read chapters in the second book and then I’d email her back and I’d go, “Deanna, I know that this is your story and so these details feel specific to you, but I got to tell you, this made me think of this happened in my life.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. For sure.

Kristina Osborn:
And everything you’re saying is spot on. And so I feel like her focus on relationships and then also her focus on needing to grow, not just specifically through her own types of trauma, but through trigger points, which I feel like we all have.

Heidi Wilcox:
We all have trigger points.

Kristina Osborn:
We all have our own ways that we believed our life unfolded. That was our perception and not necessarily reality. And so we all have things we need to work through. I think we could all benefit from therapy too. And so just the fact that Deanna makes that normal, like normalizes for the reader that you can experience these things, and work through them, and grow and be integrated on the other side I can identify with a lot of things and I think other readers can too.

Heidi Wilcox:
Same here, same here. In our first podcast conversation, Deanna, like I said, we’ll link it in the show notes. We were talking about your first book Purchased, Leaving The Sex Trade, your recovery process and the healing journey to hope and redemption that you’re on right now and that we’re all on our whole lives. Why was now the right time to write Integrated Living Beyond The Sex Trade?

Deanna Lynn:
Integrated was actually the first book that I wanted to write.

Heidi Wilcox:
I find that so interesting.

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah. I wanted to tell people what life looked like on the other side, but the thing is in order to have the credibility with the audience that this book is meant for, I needed to be able to relate to what they have been through. And so that first book… There’s a lot of books on the market where you just read the whole book and you’re like, “do they make it out? Does she survive?” And so it’s like 90% the darkness and then it’s like, and they lived happily ever after. But I wanted to show people what is happily, for me I call it, what is happily even after look like in the everyday stuff, because we don’t just go from this life to the next without some sort of war in between. And so I knew there was one piece missing from the book and it was how was I going to relate to myself and the world as a mother?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Deanna Lynn:
And it’s not that God had promised me children, it’s not that this was like the culmination of my healing, but for me it’s one relational aspect that I had hoped I would get to see God redeem, considering the relationship that I had growing up. So having two children and being able to see this part of myself come out, I knew that was going to be the final chapter of this book.

Heidi Wilcox:
You said that your healing didn’t culminate in having children, but is a piece of your healing journey and that you wanted to prepare for children mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. So how is having children now part of your healing journey?

Deanna Lynn:
So actually when I graduated Asbury Seminary I had started this process called the ultimate journey. And I think I was a few months into my husband and I preparing ourselves to have children. And I realized I don’t know how to connect with children, I don’t know how to relate. And actually I’m going to back up even further because this is pretty significant. As I was getting ready to graduate Asbury my past went completely public. And the way that the staff here had handled that was so beautiful but yet there was this part of me that was still very, very ashamed because it’s one thing to tell somebody your testimony, it’s another thing for it to be wide open for people to see your most demoralizing and dehumanizing moments.

Deanna Lynn:
And so I remember thinking like… I was coming up as a notable alum with all these distinguished gentlemen and it was some drunken picture on the red carpet and I remember thinking like, “well, maybe this is prophetic. Maybe one day I will be a notable alumni.” I don’t even know what I’m saying that [inaudible 00:24:16].

Heidi Wilcox:
You are.

Deanna Lynn:
Get a degree. Maybe one day I will be a notable alum to Asbury Seminary. And I felt like God was whispering like “Deanna, you were notable to me then too.” And that was just this part that I really had a hard time reconciling. And so it’s like when you go into the faith you think, I’m just going to look ahead, forget what’s behind. But the thing is God constantly asked me to remember what he’s delivered me from. But I was never able to connect with those parts of myself because I was like, “I don’t want anything to do with that life.”

Deanna Lynn:
And so what I had to do when I was preparing to be a mom was start from the very beginning. And so I went through this counseling session where I held a baby doll and I had to connect with this baby doll as if it were baby Deanna and I was angry and I hated her. I was so blinded with rage I couldn’t even open my eyes. They were heavy with shame but I just held on and everything that I felt everybody else felt about me coming into the world, I had projected onto myself.

Deanna Lynn:
And so from there, I had learned how to go back and listen, what were you hearing? What were the messages you were receiving? And then as my adult self, I would write myself letters to every single age and tell them what I know now to be true of God, and myself and my life. And so while I won’t make the same decisions that I made before, I can understand and have compassion and say, “no wonder, no wonder you made those choices. Like we don’t have to make those choices today, but thank you for trying.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Deanna Lynn:
“You did the best that you could.” And I’m so thankful, and I don’t have to leave any part of myself behind anymore.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You were kind of re-parenting yourself to prepare to be a wholly integrated parent, a person, I think. Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
And so when my babies did come into the world, it was like every step of my process, it was quite a process, I was able to have compassion and be able to nurture them and be able to say like, “I love you. We prepared a place for you. We wanted you.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Why did you want children so much considering the relationship that you had with your mom? Because I think it would have been really easy to be like, “I am married, but I don’t want children. I don’t want this part.” Why was this something you wanted so much?

Deanna Lynn:
Family is what saved my life. It was spiritual family. Some seasons it was my adopted family. My dad went through a lot of tragedy in raising us, the one who chose to adopt us, but he committed and he stayed the course and he still stayed the course and he found God along the way. And we all found God, and we all got some healing. But then after that it was like, I found spiritual family and they included me and I saw what God’s love could look like for the next generations to come. And so Matt and I, we definitely wanted to pour everything that God had given into us and raise up children that we could release to the world to be extensions of that hope, and that grace and that love.

Deanna Lynn:
And now there’s an unselfish side and there’s a very selfish side. Like the selfish side of me was like, I grew up not knowing what it was like to have people who looked like me. I didn’t have biological relatives that stayed in my life. So the idea of being able to have children and see a piece of yourself, I was like, “gosh, what must that be like?” Now, the other part was Matt and I were probably five to six months into marriage and I had done some deep wrestling with my theology on what it looked like to prevent having a family. And then all the questions that came with having a family and what that looked like for us. And I really wrestled, but we waited to make sure that I could go into this transition healthy. So I could bring a healthy mom to the best of my ability you know?

Deanna Lynn:
And so about six months… Matt and I just love being together and we’re like, “we’re friends, we have fun and we could totally see ourselves just doing whatever we want for the rest of our lives together.” We were like, “if we don’t start planning a family now, we’re going to become severely introverted,” and I don’t want to say not having children is selfish, but we felt like we were just going to be completely self-focused if we didn’t start the process of pouring into the next generation. And for us that looked like seeing if having a family of our own was possible, but there’s many ways to do that.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Deanna, I know that you and Matt’s journey to having children wasn’t the easiest. Would you mind telling us a little bit about your story?

Deanna Lynn:
Sure. So like I said, about I wanna say maybe six months into marriage I felt released and Matt felt released to just say like, “okay, let’s prepare ourselves for having a family.” We didn’t want to force anything, but we wanted to make sure that we were healthy and that we were going into it with our eyes open. And especially considering in my past work, having not been pregnant before kind of wondering what did that mean for us? And now Matt and I had talked when we were dating about, did you want children? Do you like children? All of those conversations. And I brought up the fact that, what if I can’t have children? What would that look like for us? And so we had hoped to, me being somebody who has been included in other families, and I kind of just like collect people along the way and I’m like, “we’re doing this life together forever now.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, you do. You collected me.

Deanna Lynn:
I take people with me on the journey, everybody is so significant. Yeah, just inclusion, inclusion is so important. So what does it look like to include people in our family? And so one of the things that we had talked about was maybe having a place where we could host children of women who wanted to go through the refuge because so many people don’t get out of the sex industry. Because they’re trying to take care of their kids and they don’t have safe family for them and they don’t want to put them in the foster program because of things that had happened to them. And so we want to be a safe place, but we were like, “well, where do we start now?” Me being in my, I want to say, like mid to late thirties, what does it look like for us to have a family at this stage?

Deanna Lynn:
And so we found out that we were going to have a lot of struggles and so we had gone through the process of taking different medications, and trying different procedures and all the way up until we started the IVF process. But one thing that was really important to us was making sure that we weren’t ungrateful in the season that we were in now. So just because we had future hopes and dreams, and like I said, God didn’t promise me a husband. He didn’t promise me children. Like every promise he made was a yes in Jesus. So we could be grateful in our presence while still going after the things that we were like, “well, God, is this part of our plan? Is this part of your plan? And what’s our part in that?”

Deanna Lynn:
Because for us being still and knowing that he is God didn’t mean inactivity, it just meant being okay with what his answer was. And so we were prayerful, we celebrated each step, we took time off to make sure that our marriage was still good and strong in between each next step. And we’re so grateful that we did that and we didn’t end up bitter and resentful. Not that those are invalid feelings at all, it’s a very hard place to be.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, it is.

Deanna Lynn:
It was just important for us to stay joyful on the journey.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Kristina, dO you and your husband have children?

Kristina Osborn:
We do not have children.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Kristina Osborn:
So that was actually a really interesting part of working with Deanna on integrated because the later portion of the book does talk through this journey that she was on. And again, I felt like it was incredibly applicable and helpful for me as somebody reading her journey, even not having kids, because I learned so much and it gave me the opportunity to have compassion for people going through infertility and struggling with that. And I even recently was having a conversation with someone who was sharing that they were beginning a journey to do, I think it was the IUI procedure and I was like, “I know what that is.” Like, “I know where you are on your journey,” because of reading Deanna’s story.

Kristina Osborn:
And so I just felt like the first book that she wrote gave me the opportunity to learn how to be compassionate for women in the sex trade, when in the past I would have been like, “they chose that life.” I would have had some of those same feelings that others might struggle with before they really know a story like Deanna’s. So I grew compassion in that way. And then she invited me into a new compassion through this Integrated story, by sharing very openly about the struggles in her healthy life, her integrated life, her family life. And so I was really touched and thought that, that part of her story was beautiful. And I think even people who don’t come out with the answer that they’re hoping for, and they’re not to a place of resolution on their timeline, I think there is so much grace and compassion and love that pours out of Deanna’s story and the way that she tells it. I think there’s a lot of solidarity that can be found there.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. Deanna’s story, the way she tells it she makes it so relatable to other people. You talked about this in your book, the things that you had to think through as you consider different kinds of fertility treatment, and I know that different people have different opinions, but how did you come to the conclusion that each step was okay to move forward with?

Deanna Lynn:
I don’t know that I will ever be 100% confirmed of what okay is.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
And so for us it was like, we walked with God and that’s what we could do. We did the best with the information that we had. And so to move forward, because it’s hard, we think about things like, there’s already children born, what like… And so Matt and I have to discuss, what does it look like to be pouring into God’s other children? And some of those children are adults.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You’ve said that to me before too, is we’ve been talking about different things that everybody is somebody’s child. And so you can have a different impact not to replace the joy of having children, because it is very different, but I just found that what you said very encouraging.

Deanna Lynn:
Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah. We can always help and love somebody. And I just think of those moms who took on the children of others. And again, that could be children, that could be adults that are somebody else’s children but we had to think about stuff like that. And so, like I said, we paused in between each thing. It was like, “okay, well if other part of my body was broken, I would take medication.” So our reproductive system’s not working, let’s go ahead and take medication that will help restore it to what we believe was the original design. And it’s not that like we fall short in any way if we’re not able to reproduce but God did make us with these amazing bodies to do these amazing things and so I’m going to see on this side of the fall, what does fruitfulness look like for me in the season? Does it look like restoring some part of my body and bearing fruit that way? Or does it look like, my body may not fully get restored the side of the earth so we’ll invest somewhere else.

Deanna Lynn:
And so just being okay each step of the way with what God’s answer was, and being honest about what we were feeling. Like I said, the joy was a big part of it, celebrating others. Just because something’s not happening for us does not mean I can’t celebrate what God’s doing in your life.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Which can be hard when you don’t have what you really want.

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah, it is. I showed up to birthday parties and I was able to host a dear friend’s baby shower and I fully enjoyed celebrating. It doesn’t mean I didn’t cry for what I was missing, but I did not let that take me away. And now everybody needs to grieve differently. Like some people may need to step back for a season from some of those friendships, but for us, it was just partnering with God every step of the way and trusting that we just offered it up at the alter and he could sacrifice it or he could bless it, but it was his ultimately.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m thinking of the person listening, the woman or the man who they’re in the middle of this journey. And they might be saying that is easy for you to say now, because your story turned out the way that you hoped it would, but I know your story, at least what you shared in the book. And I know that there were moments that you didn’t know that it was going to turn out and there were even moments where you thought you were going to lose your babies. Can you speak to that person from the place of, I don’t know that this is going to work out.

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah. So this verse is, I’m going to take it out of context and just let you know what it meant to me in the season. When I was reading this verse, it said something about, I think it was David who was like, I’m not going to offer a sacrifice that costs me nothing. And I just think about that with my life, with any part of my life, like it’s going to cost something. Like what Jesus did for us, it cost something. And so for me, it was like, I just put it all on the altar and trusted God with the answer. Now, it didn’t mean that it wasn’t going to be painful and I wasn’t always going to get a yes and my relationship with God, wasn’t dependent on a yes.

Deanna Lynn:
And like I said, I already had that yes in Jesus. He already fulfilled his promises to me, and I understood that I live in a now not yet world. And so if my answer was not yet, then I just trusted God with that and focused on what love required of me that day. And love required me to go to work, and go to school and love the people in front of me while I was waiting. And so whether I was going to get a yes in the future or not, my life would have continued to have fallen under that principle. And I’m sorry if that’s not helpful or encouraging, that’s just what helped me to stay in focus and keep my eyes fixed.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I think that’s important to recognize the only story we can tell is our own, which I think you do that really well. And it was how you coped with the unknown and how you continued to trust. And with the maybe, maybe not, and to try to hold both with open hands and knowing that that didn’t mean that you didn’t grieve for what you wanted, or seriously long for what you wanted, and be disappointed and celebrate when it was good, all the things which I think is part of-

Deanna Lynn:
It’s downright painful.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Physically and emotionally, I would imagine.

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. One of the things you said in your book talking about healing is a persistent willingness for deeper healing and growth has helped me, you were talking about yourself, Deanna, continue to live my life. It has not taking the place of actually living it. So I’m curious for each of you, what does living integrated mean to you? Kristina, you can go first.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. So living integrated, I think looks like trying to show up with all of yourself. And I think that’s something that Deanna articulates a lot in the book is just showing up is a big part of-

Heidi Wilcox:
Show up and grow up, I think is.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. And so to be an integrated person for me means trying to grow in my ability to be present in the conversations that I’m having with people. To be present in the emotional distress I might experience in the midst of a conversation, or an interaction, and then to try to press into that and say, “where did that come from?” And to always offer those things back to the Lord. And it looks like trying to allow the Lord to take the gifts that I have discovered, and that I’m still discovering and to use them be gone my comfort zone sometimes. But just to be willing to trust him that he’s given me what he has so that it can be stewarded and he’s going to provide for that. And I think it just looks like being willing to be honest about where I’ve been and where I am and where I hope to be going.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m in counseling right now and one of the things that my counselor said to me is, all of you is okay. Even the parts of yourself that you don’t like right now, it doesn’t mean you’re going to leave them that way, but you can like yourself even when there’s parts of you that you don’t like.

Kristina Osborn:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So Deanna, what does living integrated mean to you?

Deanna Lynn:
Well, first I’m just so excited that somebody who has read and worked with me in this book, like really gets it. Because I want people to understand that yes, like being integrated is bringing your whole self to the table. Now it doesn’t mean we have to share our entire life story with every single person. As you can see, not always the best thing when you read my book, but it does mean being willing to hear what’s going inside yourself and to have that internal dialogue with yourself and with God, and be able to be accepting of the parts that are coming up and use those things when you would see that it is actually beneficial to you and the other person involved in that moment.

Deanna Lynn:
So for somebody, with my background to come from a life where like I had to dissociate in order to cope and survive and become this other character that the world wanted me to be for their own personal entertainment, and to go from that into a place of safety where I can heal and I can be all of me, but then go back out into the world and realize, oh my goodness, like the healing continues. I can’t go into a refuge every time something comes up.

Deanna Lynn:
So how do I stay so connected with myself that I’m not shoving any part of myself down, but that I can continue to move forward in the things that are in front of me and still connect with those parts of myself and come back to some of those parts when it’s not appropriate. Maybe I’m at work, maybe not the time to start some huge healing process right there with my coworker who doesn’t need to know all of those facts. But I can be aware and I can go to the people that are in my life and say like, “Hey, this is coming up. How do I listen to this? How do I have compassion? And how do I grow through this while continuing to move forward with where God has me right now.”

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. So I don’t think we realized this until we were sitting here having this conversation. I love processing things out loud, but the music that I just released in part, because Deanna helped to invest in it is actually my own integration story.

Heidi Wilcox:
Really?

Kristina Osborn:
In the form of music. Yeah. So I actually, in the season where I was coming out of college and transitioning into seminary, went through a really dark season in my own life. Had some mental health struggles and really just felt very numb in debt in my faith, and coming to seminary was like the Lord’s neon blinking sign. I was like, “this makes no sense. I feel totally dead about everything in my life.” And he was just like, he opened the doors for me to get here when I hadn’t planned to be here. And so it was the next right step, the one that was obvious and I took it.

Kristina Osborn:
And so like the Lord healed me through my years, being here at seminary and growing at Embrace. It was probably two to three years after the hardest months of that experience for me, where I felt like I came to a point where I was able to say, “okay, Lord, I feel like I can put all of these experiences into who I am.” So the first music that I released when I graduated college really, it was a different person who wrote those songs. And so I came to this point in the midst of my own struggle where I said, “I don’t know how to sing those songs anymore who I am now.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Interesting.

Kristina Osborn:
And I don’t know how to sing songs about who I’ve become. And I felt like music was something that left my life for a period of time because I wasn’t myself for a period of time. And so when the Lord began to give that back, it was the songs on this EP that started coming out of me. And so it was when I presented my story about that time of struggle and how the Lord had begun to redeem it in front of my church community. And I shared these songs as part of that, that the Lord actually put the desire on my heart to put them into a new album and release them.

Kristina Osborn:
And so my ability to live integrated is reflected in the fact that those songs have not just been birthed out of me, but have been shared with the world now. And I think being willing to say, as the songs on the album will reflect part of my story is lament. Part of my story is saying, “God, I feel dead. And if you don’t bring me back to life, there will be no resurrection. If you’re not good, then there is no hope for me.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Right.

Kristina Osborn:
That’s reflected in a couple of the songs on the EP. And so just my willingness to say those things out loud, and then to sing those things and then to release them into the world has been part of my own journey of living integrated.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You both share in different ways, your struggle, your surrender and the joy and the continual sanctification process. Just the continual redeeming as we learn new things about ourselves. As you guys wrote the book… So I really like this quote from father Gregory Boyle.

Kristina Osborn:
I Love father Gregory. I was so excited when she used that [crosstalk 00:47:27].

Heidi Wilcox:
And he said, “it’s not our job to reach them broken, rather it’s our job to let them reach us with their brokenness.” How does writing this book help you all do this?

Kristina Osborn:
Can you read the quote again? I feel like I just got so excited. I need to hear [crosstalk 00:47:46].

Heidi Wilcox:
Sure, sure. It’s worth repeating. So he said, “it’s not our job to reach them broken, rather it’s our job to let them reach us with their brokenness.” How does writing this book help you both do that? And for you Kristina, maybe the book and your music feel free to talk about both, but how does this book and your music help or allow the broken to reach you all?

Deanna Lynn:
I think it’s just one more medium. One more avenue where people can see like, “oh my goodness. This isn’t me being an alcoholic, or this isn’t me being broken. This isn’t me being traumatized. This is a part of maturing, but I need to get to my next step. How do I do that?” And so often they’ll reach out to me personally. They’ll write letters or messages and my husband go through with my mentors and with God on who we get to answer because some not all of them have the best intentions. But it’s one avenue where people can connect and then either they come to me, they go to God or there’s other resources in my book.

Deanna Lynn:
Now I don’t know that that actually answers that question as far as them reaching me to the depths of my soul but I think it just keeps us in a place of… One of my favorite verses is the Lord lifts up those who are bowed down and it keeps me in a place where I remember like me too, me too. Like I’m never far above. I saw the best picture the other day and it was something like, “you see someone who’s overdosed and I see someone who God wants to help, and you see someone who’s nodded out and I see someone that God loves.” And then it was like, “you see them, and I see me.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.

Deanna Lynn:
I was like, I never want to forget. And so I see me in everybody, I see someone’s child… Now that I’m a mother. Oh my gosh. I’m a pretty strong T and J on the Myers-Briggs. And so any type of overwhelming feeling typically is the holy spirit. But now that I have kids, I’m so at a moments notice ready to cry because everybody is somebody’s child and I love my child so much. And so now I connect on an even deeper level.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah, no I think everything you’re saying is so true, Deanna. I think maybe in similar words to that Gregory Boyle quote, instead of going up to someone and saying, “you’re broken-”

Heidi Wilcox:
[crosstalk 00:50:33] right. That doesn’t usually work.

Kristina Osborn:
Right. Going up and saying, “I’m broken, I have been broken. There’s a safe place for you here.” And I think that’s what Deanna’s book does. I think she’s hospitable, I’ve said that already. But she creates safe space where if it’s safe for her to tell her story, then it’s safe for you to have a similar one or a different one. It’s safe for you to own your story because Deanna walks in ownership of her own story, and her own life and has chosen to allow it to be rewritten by God’s hand and her partnership with God’s hand. And if that’s possible in the space that she’s created in this book, and if it’s possible for me to tell my story through my music, then it’s possible for people who encounter those stories to say, “well, maybe what I have experienced matters too. And maybe I can become something through this and in this and beyond this too.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Is a reminder not to take God’s grace for granted, which I think is sometimes easy to do. And also to realize that it takes intentional behaviors and habits to create new habits. Like it doesn’t just happen overnight. As you said, showing up leads to growing up and that freedom, gratitude and joy are not feelings but actions and even practices. So what is it like for each of you to live free?

Deanna Lynn:
I think it comes back to that trust. One of the things… So that section that you just quoted from father Gregory Boyle is from my mentor. And she also had mentioned something that she had learned from another podcast was that, how we trust God, like is reflected in our whole lives. Like it’s our love language back to God, how we trust him. And I think our actions show how much we trust him. And so I may not always have it right but I genuinely trust him to teach me and guide me on the way, like he doesn’t expect me to be a fortune teller. Prophecy for me sometimes is just having revelation of Jesus Christ and the person that he is and the person that he is in me.

Deanna Lynn:
And so it’s not always like, here’s your next thing, it’s just literally the abiding. And I think it’s in the abiding that we can live free because he gives us just the amount of visibility that we need to keep moving forward. And while I know the end destination, I don’t necessarily know every road I’m going to take along the way.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right, for sure.

Kristina Osborn:
Absolutely. Yeah. I love that you said abiding. That’s been a huge word, and image and reality in my growth and my journey of sanctification as well. In fact, that was one of the main concepts that I was working with when I wrote the first group of songs. And so then I was like, “but now what does it look like in my life?” So learning to live free for me on the other side of this really dark experience in my own life, has looked like allowing myself to recognize God’s compassion for me and to have that compassion for myself.

Kristina Osborn:
So actually the last song on my EP, it’s called Dust to Dust. And it reflects this journey the Lord took me through of bringing together this picture we get in the Old Testament from God breathing life into Adam, the dust of the ground for him to become human. And then we get Ecclesiastes 3:20, “we come from dust and to dust you will return.” And then my favorite verse that I learned in my ministry undergrad, but I still always point back to when people ask what sanctification is 2 Corinthians 3:18 talks about how, “as we behold the glory of God we’re being transformed from glory to glory into the likeness and the image of Christ.” And so the Lord invited me in my own integration process, recognize that this trend or this movement from dust to dust and this movement from glory to glory happened simultaneously.

Kristina Osborn:
And so that we are always moving from dust to dust while also becoming more glorious. And so there are days that we’re going to feel more dusty and there’s days that are days that are going to feel more glorious. And it’s not because we’re failing, and it’s not because we haven’t tried hard enough, and it’s not because God suddenly doesn’t love us, but it’s because we are at the same time both dusty and glorious. And so him allowing me to bring those two trajectories together and to hold them together in my own life has been a real invitation to compassion for myself.

Kristina Osborn:
So living free has looked like recognizing that some days I don’t feel like I can sit down and study scripture and get anything out of it. Some days I just need to receive, I need to sit and be quiet and read one Psalm over and over and allow it to just settle my soul. And the practices that bring me life on this side of that dark season of my life are not all the same. Like there used to be things that brought me life that don’t bring me life anymore. And I have felt guilty about that for awhile and I tried to make it work and I just realized that there are more ways that are possible to connect with God. And I realized that he wasn’t disappointed in me if I didn’t come to him the same way that I did.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. It’s all about the coming and there are different methods to come. And also on what you guys are saying learning to ask for help too. Because I’m guessing that neither of you did or are continuing to do your journey alone. And I think that’s a really important thing too.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah. I think having accountable community has been a huge step for me. Actually, it wasn’t until I was in a small group at Embrace and I sat down with the women. This was in the season where I still felt like I was really numb. I started leading a small group and I’m pretty sure I told them, I was like, “I don’t think I’m in the shape to be a leader right now.” And the people who were doing it were like, “just give it a try.”

Kristina Osborn:
I sat down that first night at the small group and I was like, “I just want you to know that I feel really spiritually numb. And I don’t think I have much to offer you, but I’m willing to go on this journey together and I just wanted you to know where I’m at.” It was an incredibly healing way to begin not only that experience for me, but for the group in general and having a small group accountable community has continued to be really helpful for me.

Deanna Lynn:
I see there’s that authenticity that I talking about. It’s that authenticity that leads to being able to invite someone like Kristina in the journey.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I love that because I feel like I feel pressure when I’m in small groups to be the thing that I think I should be, to be the person I think I should be to start out with. And so I just really appreciate that so much. And I’m like, “Hmm, can you be my small group?”

Kristina Osborn:
Really? [crosstalk 00:57:15] practice though. There are times that I still want to hide and then I don’t want to be honest about where I am and what I need. So, we’re all growing.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. Because the show is called The Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Deanna Lynn:
So it’s funny because I asked Matt this question, my husband, Matt. And I was like, “what do you think that I do that allows me to thrive in your life?” And he’s like, “well, you read your Bible every day and you always pray.” And I was like, “yeah, but everybody does that.” And I was like, “isn’t that like the Sunday school answer and stuff.” And I thought about, and I was like, “but you’re right.” Like if you read the second book you will see I have prayed every step of the way because I’ve… I used to have this pillow that said pray big and I had it in the dorms and me and the girls would get together and we would pray big about what we actually had on our hearts. And I never wanted to discourage anybody from being exactly where they were with God.

Deanna Lynn:
And as we do that, he will change those desires and make them more like his and all of that stuff, but we never have to hold back. So I’ve always prayed exactly where I was. And I felt almost discouraged from it as of late, reading some different books and some different comments and stuff about my relationship with God. And then I just went right back to, I do life with God. And yes, I do it for him. And I live under him and all of this stuff, but I do life with God. So that is like praying without ceasing, rejoice always and continue to give thanks. Those are the things that allow me to thrive. And as for reading my Bible, it’s just like I came 28 years into my healing journey completely deceived. And so it is important to me to continue to remind my mind of truth so that I know what’s counterfeit when it comes my way. And so I think those are just two things I continue to have to do.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That’s beautiful.

Deanna Lynn:
Two things I get to do.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That’s beautiful. Kristina, what about you?

Deanna Lynn:
Yeah. So I am still on the journey of rediscovering new practices that are life giving to me. And I recently-

Heidi Wilcox:
I love that.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah, I think it’s something we need to keep doing because we’re not the same person in one season to the next sometimes. So I’ve recently discovered an app that has been really helpful for me it’s called the Dwell Bible app and it is like an audio version of the Bible and 16 different voices and eight different versions. And they have different reading plans, and you can also just go straight through books. But the whole heart behind creating this app was that the creators thought about the fact that for centuries, the way that people engage scripture was to hear it.

Kristina Osborn:
And I really just felt like my soul took a deep breath when I heard that. And I was like, “I just need to hear it. I need to receive it.” And so I remember I was sitting across from a counselor at one point in my own healing journey and I was explaining to her that, I couldn’t prayer journal anymore. That it was painful to prayer journal. And she was like, “do you think that’s because you’re still trying too hard, like you’re performing and you’re producing something and you have to produce it well enough.” And I was like, “Oh, maybe.” And she goes, “what if you just need to figure out how to receive?” And so I feel like this app just lets me receive the word of God. Especially after, five years I did a dual program at Asbury two master’s degrees, five years, after five years of writing the papers, and studying the scripture and producing the things, I’m only a year and a half on the other side of graduating now, just receiving scripture has been so life giving and has really just helped me to thrive.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That’s beautiful.

Deanna Lynn:
Now, I have to know as Johnny Cash one of those voices, because I did just find out that there’s-

Kristina Osborn:
I have no idea.

Deanna Lynn:
… that you can get Johnny Cash-

Heidi Wilcox:
Can you really?

Deanna Lynn:
… the Bible [crosstalk 01:01:14].

Kristina Osborn:
That’s pretty funny. No, but I heard from my friend who listened to it with me, that the voice of David on the podcast is also the voice of a French detective on a BBC show or something.

Heidi Wilcox:
Interesting.

Kristina Osborn:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
I love it. I really appreciate you guys sharing, not just in the podcast but sharing your faith throughout the whole podcast, but especially in how you guys are thriving right now. It’s just been really encouraging to me. And I just appreciate your time today. Thank you.

Kristina Osborn:
Thank you so much.

Deanna Lynn:
Thanks for having us.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Any time. Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Deanna and Kristina. I just really appreciate their honesty, authenticity and the way they’re both committed to growing in their faith and as whole persons. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did and be sure to thank Deanna and Christina for being part of today’s show. As always, you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Asbury seminary. Until next time, I hope you’ll go do something that helps you thrive.