Thrive
Podcast

Overview

Today on the podcast, I had the true delight of getting to talk to Dr. Barbara L. Peacock. Dr. Peacock is a D.Min. graduate of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. She’s a spiritual director, author, teacher and preacher. She is the founder of Barbara L. Peacock Ministries, a ministry committed to developing disciples through prayer, spiritual direction, soul care, mentoring and teaching.

In today’s conversation, we talk about Dr. Peacock’s call to ministry, her own struggle with depression, how she overcame that and the freedom that she has found on the other side of that suffering. We talk about her new book Soul Care in African American Practice that received the 2021 Christianity Today Award of Merit in the Spiritual Formation category. In this book, Dr. Peacock reflects on the disciplines of prayer, spiritual direction and soul care and how these are woven into the African American culture and lived out in the rich heritage of its faith community. She uses the examples of 10 significant men and women in the African American community to offer us the opportunity to engage in practices of soul care as we learn from these spiritual leaders.

You can find a link to her book and the workbook that goes with it in our show notes today. You can purchase it through InterVarsity Press, Amazon or your local bookstore, so if you haven’t already done so, make sure you grab a copy of that.

So without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Dr. Peacock!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Dr. Barbara Peacock, Founder of Barbara L. Peacock Ministries

Barbara L. Peacock (D.Min., Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary) is a spiritual director, author, teacher, and preacher. She is the founder of Barbara L. Peacock Ministries, a ministry committed to developing disciples through prayer, spiritual direction, soul care, mentoring, and teaching.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.



Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of The Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast, I had the true delight of getting to talk to Barbara L Peacock. Dr. Peacock is a DMin graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. She’s a spiritual director, author, teacher, and preacher. She’s also the founder of Barbara L Peacock Ministries, a ministry that is committed to developing disciples through prayer, spiritual direction, soul care, mentoring, and teaching. In today’s conversation. We talk about Dr. Peacock’s call into ministry, her own struggle with depression, and how she overcame that and the freedom that she has found on the other side of that suffering.

Heidi Wilcox:
We talk about her new book, Soul Care in African American Practice that received the 2021 Christianity Today Award of merit and spiritual formation category. In this book, Dr. Peacock reflects on the disciplines of prayer, spiritual direction and soul care, and how these are woven into the African-American culture, and lives out in the rich heritage of its faith and community. She uses the examples of 10 significant men and women in the African-American community to offer us the opportunity to engage in practices of soul care as we learn from the spiritual leaders. So you can find a link to her book in the workbook that goes along with it in our show notes today, you can purchase the book through InterVarsity Press, Amazon or your local bookstore. So if you haven’t already done so make sure you grab a copy of that. So without further ado, let’s listen to my conversation with Dr. Peacock.

Heidi Wilcox:
Dr. Peacock. It is such a delight to have you today. I am just so grateful that we get to have this conversation about soul care, and self care, and spiritual direction and all of those things. So looking forward to this, so thank you for being part of the conversation today.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes, Heidi. It’s so good to be with you as well, and I look forward to our time of sharing, and prayerfully it will be a blessing.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. That was my prayer as well, before we even started talking to each other, that it would be a blessing to each other as we talk to each other, but then also a blessing to those who are listening as well.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Absolutely, yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. So I know that you lead and founded Barbara L Peacock Ministries, how did all of that get started?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
That’s a great question. Prior to starting Barbara L Peacock Ministries, I worked for a mega church and the name of that church is The Park Church on the leadership of Bishop Claude Richard Alexander Jr, and while working there, I was responsible for discipleship and prayer, and really didn’t have any intentions of leaving. And after 14 years, one morning I woke up and I sense God nudging me to make a transition from full-time ministry at a mega church and just to take some rest and I didn’t fully understand it, but of course we know that God is all omniscient and what I didn’t know at the time, but of course, what God knew was that I was suffering with a heart disease that I had been born with. I resigned from The Park Church. I shouldn’t say I resigned, I came out, I transitioned from being all staff the end of July, and just took some rest and began to exercise frequently.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And in one class, I just couldn’t do it. It was like my heart was falling out of my chest when I was doing this little exercise when you’re on your stomach and you’re waving your hands and like, “Oh Superman.” Well, I’ll call it a super woman. I worked on the super woman version of Superman. I wasn’t Wonder Woman, I was just trying to do the exercise, but I felt like my heart was coming out of my chest. And so I said, “Well, I’ll pull away from that.” And then I went to the beauty salon to get my hair done, I was sitting underneath the dryer and I felt the same pressure, and it was very tight. And I said, “This not normal.” So I drove myself to the doctor, and the doctor immediately recognized that it was a heart problem. Then the doctor sent me to the cardiologist the next day, and then the cardiologist sent me to the hospital for some further x-raying, and then the next thing I know I was talking to a surgeon.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh my.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so that was in October 2014. I’m sorry, that was October 2013.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And my surgery was on January 2014. Really they wanted to do surgery in 2013, but we were approaching the holidays, Thanksgiving, and Christmas was right around the corner. And I just asked for an extension and they said, as long as I took it easy, and while I was taking it easy I felt it necessary to call together some of my mentees and share with them what had happened in my transition from the church and how my help was coming along. And at that gathering in December 2013 afterwards, a few of us were left in the kitchen cleaning up, and then I just sense the call to a ministry.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And I was like, “Oh my God.” And so I looked around in the kitchen and there were like five or six young ladies. And I just sent God saying, this is your ministry. And I wasn’t looking for a ministry, I wasn’t thinking about a ministry, I didn’t have a name for ministry. Of course, like I said, in the beginning of 2014, I had surgery, and after that, I started talking to some people about having a ministry. And I really wasn’t interested in using my name whatsoever because using your name can be good or bad.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
So I was sharing my journey with this little marketing group and telling them how my mother’s maiden name, which I talk about in the book Soul Care in African-American Practice, my mother’s maiden name, not her married name, but my mother’s maiden name was Peacock, and I married a Peacock.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh interesting.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Very interesting. So it was important that I knew that I wasn’t marrying my cousin.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And we still talk about kissing cousins every now and then. But beyond that, my husband had been in corporate the majority of his career, we had traveled around the country and I had met a lot of friends, been involved in a lot of different ministries, and so after sharing my journey a little bit with this marketing group, they recommended that I call the ministry Barbara L Peacock Ministry. So that’s how we got started, and that’s how the name came into existence.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. That’s really cool. Yeah. One of the things you said as you were talking about your calling or your knowing, that this was your next right step, you talked about sensing that God was saying this to you. What does that mean to you? How do you know that?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. Sometimes I am very cautious and how I use that language, sometimes I don’t have any other way to communicate it because these ideas are not my ideas, and these things are not things that I’m thinking about. The Bible tells us, the worst of Jesus, they say my sheep know my voice, and the voice of a stranger they will not follow. And we know his voice through the reading of the word, we know his voice through the teaching and preaching of the word. There’s an inner being of the presence of God abiding and living and moving and breathing and speaking on the inside of us. So we have to be sensitive to the mood and the flow of the spirit within us. And so that’s how I sense I am hearing the voice of God.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. That makes sense. You’ve mentioned that you grew up on a farm and you worked outdoors and helped take care of animals, how did this experience shape your experience of faith and knowing God and understanding him and his love?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Everything, everything about it. I’m a big proponent of writing one spiritual autobiographies, and that’s the spiritual discipline that has been around for centuries. And when you write one spiritual biography, you come to understand your journey, and you’re better equipped to connect the dots. And so on the farm, it was all nature, it was cows and pigs and horses and dogs and cats and turtles, and we had a billy goat. And I remember going to my mother’s sister’s house, ans she had a turkey.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And I thought that was so unfair, because we didn’t have a turkey in our farm. How could we not have a turkey? I mean, we had everything else. I guess I shouldn’t have looked that, you know the grass is always greener on the other side.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I probably should have looked at the fact that we had a turtle and a billy goat, which my aunt didn’t have, but it was just regular life for us attending the farm, and when you growing up, you didn’t think about I’m enjoying or not enjoying, it’s just what you did. I remember looking at the sky in midnight, listening to the crickets, listening to the birds, late waking up and listening to the mooing of the cow, the oinking of the pig, and the barking of the dog, and the meowing of the cat, and you just didn’t think about it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And one of my favorite things was working in the garden with my mother. And I can remember as a little girl, just her picking a sweet peas, and she would pick and I was sitting on the bucket, and she would hand me the peas and I will put them in the bucket, or shake them or whatever she told me to do, but I love to eat raw sweet peas. And I love vegetables, so even to this day, it’s just part of who I am. But I had no idea the power of the formation, and I will say spiritual formation as well coming from a spiritually oriented family, and a genealogy of Christians.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I didn’t know how much that was forming me. And so you grow up and you go to school, and you go college and you get married and you… We have a daughter who’s grown now, probably older than you, Heidi, and we were grandparents. And then all of a sudden God starts showing you the spiritual side of you, and how it was all formed. And so I believe that I’ve always been a contemplative, even as a child, and that’s what formed me on this journey of soul care and spiritual direction.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. One of the things you mentioned in your book that I found interesting, because it’s something that I sometimes don’t think about, but when I do think about, I struggle to understand, and I think all humans do, because we can’t understand the breadth and depth of God’s love, but one thing I’m really curious about is, how we can embrace a theology that embodies God’s love for us?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. I love that question, Heidi. I believe that we all have some dominant thought process as it relates to our theology, and we look at numerous doctrines of faith, The Doctrine of God, The Doctrine of the Trinity, The Doctrine of Love, The Doctrine of Faith, and as we listen to ministers and pastors and teachers and preaches, and those that serve in the ministry, if we listen to them consistently we will be able to recognize the dominance of their theology. And one of the dominant factors of my theology is The Doctrine of Love. And I believe that should be the dominant factor, the dominant doctrine that we address in the body of Christ, because that is the first commandment, to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. And 1 John tells us that God is love.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so, because God is love, if we want love, we have to go to the source of love. And then God tells us to love him, and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and that he first loved us. And so knowing that God first loved us, and that he is the source of love, if we want authentic, transparent, empowering, engaging, applicable, relevant love, we go to the source, so I go to God for love. I receive, and I encourage you to receive, and the listeners to receive the love of God, to open yourself up, to allow this immeasurable, this saturating, this emerging love to soak in God’s love. And his love is unconditional. His love says, come as you are, you don’t have to fix anything, you don’t have to change anything. And all of us have done terrible things, we smoke, and we drink, and we curse, and we sleep around, and we lie, we cheat and we have idols, we do all things, but God says, I still love you and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
So whether we acknowledge that God loves us, whether we acknowledged that we love him, he still loves us. And out of the love that we receive from God, David says in the 23rd Psalm, that my cup runneth over. So how powerful is that to have a cup of love running over in you? And it’s out of the abundance of love that we receive from God, because God is love. It’s like, if I want coffee, I have to go get a cup of coffee, I’m not going to get a cup of hot chocolate, even though I love hot chocolate. So coffee is coffee. And if I wanted abundance of coffee, and if I wanted to have enough to share with others, I have to make enough in the pot to give to somebody else.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so this love of God is just so powerful. Going back in this country church that I grew up in, when I was 14 years old, I could not wait for the all to call, and that’s back in the day. That’s how you gave your life to the Lord, at Revival.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. I remember.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. We go down to the mourners bench, and you surrender. And then I was down there, these mothers of the church were hovering around me and they kept saying, “Jesus loves you, Jesus loves you, Jesus loves you, Jesus loves you.” And it was just pounding in my mind and pounding in my heart. They just repeated it over and over, just ask Jesus to come into your heart, come as you are. And that’s still what I share, Jesus loves you, ask him to come into your heart. And when they told me that Jesus loved me, I believe them. I believe them.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. And that belief makes all the difference in how you view the world, and yourself, and others.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heidi Wilcox:
So when you talk about embracing that theology, I want to talk about self care and soul care, probably before we jump into that, it will be helpful to have a little description. Because I think you distinguish between self care and soul care, so if you could give us that definition, and then walk us through a little bit how we can set ourselves up to embrace those things, because I think it’s really about embracing God’s love for us in those two things.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Amen. Both of those words self care and soul care are packed.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And we could talk for a couple of years on self-care and soul care, but I’m going to try to share it in it’s simplest form from the way I see it. So when I began writing the book Soul Care in African-American Practice, it was initially entitled Prayer Spiritual Direction and Soul Care from my African-American Perspective. And so we know that there is no soul care or spiritual direction without prayer. Prayer is that undergirding factor of ministry, period, anything we desire to do for Christ must be founded and rooted in prayer. In the book I use soul care and spiritual direction synonymously, and meaning that soul care and spiritual direction are disciplines, I call them loving disciplines of listening. Soul care and spiritual direction are disciplines that are designed to help people better discern the activity and voice of God in their life.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
So that’s applies to both words, soul care and spiritual direction. But for the simplicity of the title of the book, we just say soul care, understanding it means spiritual direction as well, and understanding that it’s necessary to be rooted and grounded in prayer. But so many people used the language of soul care to mean self care, as well as a plethora of numerous other definitions. But for our conversation, I would like to say that, self-care is mainly taking care of myself, I like to exercise, I enjoy nice smelling candles, I enjoy walking, I’m taking care of myself, I’m taking care of my body, but I can also take care of my soul if I am mindful that my soul needs to be taken care of. But we can have self-care taking care of ourselves without incorporating soul cure, but we cannot have soul care without self care.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I can’t take care of my soul because my soul is all of me, including myself. It’s my living being, the scripture, says, God breathed into Adam, the breath of life and Adam or Adom became a living soul, total being. And so that’s why I was sharing with you early. I was so excited when I was reading a Psalm 142 and 143 this morning, and David was talking about his soul, and in Psalm 142, he talks about the challenges he was having, he says, no one cares for my soul, and bring my soul out of prison, that’s in 142. But in 143, he says, my soul longs for you like a thirsty land. And then also in 143, he says, for I lift up my soul to you for your righteous that bring my soul out of trouble.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so the soul has all of myself, all of my thoughts, all of my feelings, all of my emotions, all of my life. So I can take care of myself and be a wreck, but I can’t take care of my soul and not take care of myself as well.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That definition is beautiful. I’d never really thought about it that way, as the solving that all encompassing thing that if you take care of that, you are a complete whole person in God. That’s a beautiful picture. Amen.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Amen. So often in the faith community we say that the soul is the mind, the will, and the emotion, and true, but the soul is all of you. There’s no part of you that’s not the soul.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I love that. I think this is maybe changing gears a little bit, but I want to talk about this before we move forward a little bit, and I know it’s all connected, but in your book you mentioned a time that you plummeted into your own darkness, would you tell us that story and what led you there? And then how you got out? I’m sure it involves soul care as part of that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yeah. I love it how you get out.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Because, I mean-

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
How did I get out of the darkness.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right. I have been in some dark times and sometimes you just wonder, am I going to get out? The sun is shining outside, but it feels like it’s raining inside all the time.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes, Heidi. I think about a song, I think is an old Negro spiritual, it says, but it may not be how I got over, my soul looks back and wonder how I got over. (singing). But my soul looks back and wonder, and I know how I got over, I got over from the dark place, by the grace of God. I was serving in full-time ministry, working morning, noon and night, driving 45 minutes one way to work, being at prayer at 6:00 AM in the morning, sometimes staying late at night until 9 or 10, o’clock, getting home at 10 or 11 o’clock at night, and just working in ministry, doing ministry, preaching, teaching, praying, counseling, mentoring, whatever you can do.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And I was just going, I was on automatic pilot, and one morning out of nowhere, at least it was nowhere to me, I woke up and I couldn’t move, and I was like a basket.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh wow.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I was like a basket case, and I was in a fetal position. I did not see it coming Heidi. I remember watching my husband leave for work, and I was supposed to go to work that day, but I didn’t. I called in and then the day went by, and I would get up when I had to, and get back into the bed. I didn’t eat anything. And then my husband came home and he looked at me and he says, “What’s wrong with you?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” And so he came to bed and the next day he got up, he went to work, I was still in the fetal position. He came back and I was the same way. What’s wrong with you? I don’t know.

Heidi Wilcox:
That would be so scary.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
It was so scary. And I said to myself, “What is wrong with you?” And I was weeping. It just wasn’t my norm, and I called my girlfriend, and we went to undergraduate school together and I said, “Something is wrong with me?” And I said, “Maybe I need to go to the doctor.”

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And I said, “Well, I can’t drive very far.” I wasn’t capable of driving far, I wasn’t stable. And so I drove myself to a local doctor, and that was not a helpful appointment, and I knew it wasn’t. And so then I called another girlfriend and I said, “I need help, and I need it now.” And so she put me in touch with the holistic doctor, and then the holistic doctor put me in touch with a medical doctor, and the medical doctor put me in touch with the counselor. So at the same time I had a holistic doctor, medical doctor and a counselor. And I remember going to the counselor and walking into her office and I saw a couch, a table with a couple of chairs, and a rocking chair facing the couch. And I looked at the rock and chair when I walked in, and I looked at the couch, and I looked at the table, and I said, “I think I’m supposed to be on the couch.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
“I think I’m supposed to be on the couch.” Now, mind you, I was always in the chair and everybody else was on the couch, but now I’m own the couch. A long story short from that, we discovered that I was dealing with depression, that I was burnt out, and that I was going through perimenopause, so I was… All the doctors and we all put that together. And so that’s what I had to work through. And it was truly what St. John of the cross entitles a dark night of the soul.

Heidi Wilcox:
[crosstalk 00:28:30].

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And even though it was very difficult, I wouldn’t take nothing for it, because in order to understand the plight of others, and the depth of darkness that other spiel… Even Jesus suffered, in the book I talk about the suffering. I talk about Howard Thurman and suffering. So I want to go to the book.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yes, please do.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I want to go to the book, and I want to look at a quote here by Howard Thurman on page 136, the book of course we know is Soul Care in African American Practice, but this chapter by Dr. Howard Thurman is entitled Prayer and Suffering, and we know that Dr. Thurman was an African-American mystic, but on page 136, I quote Dr. Thurman… Actually I want to back up a little bit and read something I wrote.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. Sure.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
The middle of page 136, I say, “In addition to the topic of prayer, Dr. Thurman also spoke of the plight of suffering, as an African American man who lived through the Civil rights movement, he was vividly aware of the oppression and persecution that resulted from blatant racism and the injustices it perpetrated. As he pondered the idea of a world without suffering, he wrote, what would life be like?” And I quote, and I start over again, “What would life be like if there were no suffering, no pain, the startling discovery is made that if there was no suffering, there would be no freedom. Men can make no mistakes, and I add women. Consciously or unconsciously, the race could make no mistakes, there will be no error, there will be no possibility of choice at any point or in any sense what so ever.”

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And he continues, and I quote the last part of his statement, which I love, “Freedom therefore cannot be separated from suffering, this then may be one of the ways in which suffering pays for it’s ride.” And so I started off singing how I got over, my soul looks back and wonder how I got over, and that getting over is the freedom. My soul looks back and wonder how I became free of the depression, and the oppression, and the darkness, but it’s the grace and love of God and healing. And so I encourage people that no matter… I believe in counseling, I believe that everyone should have a spiritual director, I believe in holistic healing and taking care of yourself. I believe in self care. So too often we are burnt out or on our way to being burnt out like I was, but we don’t know we are.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And then sometimes we just know instantly. And Heidi, I did not know the symptoms of perimenopause that stays before menopause in women, and everybody doesn’t go through it, but my hormones were so off the chart, and I had to get balance. And so Thurman writes here, “Freedom therefore can not be separated from the suffering.” Now we have all kinds of suffering, and in this case Dr. Thurman was referencing oppression, and the Civil rights movement, and the persecution, but any suffering is not forever. That’s why the Psalm is says, weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. And I will say suffering may endure for a night, but freedom comes in the morning, trouble don’t last always. And I know that’s a Negro song, I’m so glad trouble don’t last, all weights. And freedom can not be separated from slavery.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. I had never thought about it that way before, that, and as you put it much more beautifully than I did, it earns its ticket into the world because it allows you to have freedom.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And just like Christ, Christ suffered so we could have freedom.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
If the model can make some type of connection, or if there’s not a metaphor of parallelism to the Canaan, to the Bible, then we’re off, but if we can see and connect our journey with Jesus’s, we know we’re on track.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. definitely.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. And as we think about the leaders or lay people that we may be talking to, who, or people… I don’t know. I think some people are just like me, they have a job, and they go home, and they have families, and this and that, as we’re doing things, how can we make sure that we are incorporating soul care, and… Well, I was going to say self care, but if we do soul care, we’ve done all of that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
You got it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
What are some things that we can be thinking about, I think as you put it in your book being purposeful, but not busy?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes. In the book I used to acronym the BUSY, B-U-S-Y, and it’s an acronym that I heard her before BUSY means Being Under Satan’s Yolk. And so Satan desires to steal our time, to pull us away from the most important relationship with the one that can heal us and deliver us and free us. And so in order to… I like to call it, bring some balance out of the chaos, and we know we’re always fighting and struggling to have this balance, and most important thing that we must do every day is to incorporate time with God. We talk about tithing our time, our talent and our treasure, so in the model of Jesus was all about seeking God early. And the Bible says that God loves those that love him, and those that seek God early shall find him. And Jesus models seeking God early, he models taking time to go up to the mountains, so he’ll go before the disciples and be on the other side of the ocean by himself.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so we have hectic schedules, and we have purposeful schedules, but in the midst of the activities, and being inundated with deadlines and responsibilities, is important and necessary to allow your spiritual time to take precedence over anything else. Every day, I try to wake up, and when I wake up, no matter what’s going on, no matter what’s pressing, to take that time in prayer, to take that time and read scripture. And I know you may be running out the door with your cup of coffee, or you might have to do pick up other kids, or you may have to make it be on a Zoom call, or be in the office at a certain time, but be intentional about carving out that time. So you have to do whatever it takes to carve out that time until that time becomes just automatic, just like a breath of air. And as we work through this journey of spirituality, start incorporating other disciplines that will empower you for a light of slowing a life of simplicity.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And in the book, I talk about numerous disciplines like detaching and attaching, I talk about the discipline of Visio Divina, which is a sacred visual and Lectio Divina, which is a sacred reading, and the importance of meditating on the word, and the similarities between meditation and contemplation, and the distinctiveness between meditation and contemplation. Your soul, like the Psalm it says here, my soul longs to you like a thirsty land. And we get to this place. And Heidi, my situation with the depression was, I was doing ministry, but I wasn’t being filled up the way I needed to be filled up ongoing, and I was overextended myself. So you have to have boundaries for your day, to have boundaries for your week, to make sure that you take rest every day, and that you take a day of rest every week, and that you take a month of resting if possible, because Jesus says, he says I didn’t come to abolish the law, I came to fulfill the law.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And the law says, remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy, on six days, God gift us to work, and on the seventh day rest. And so when we look at the book of Hebrews, we see that the children of Israel did not enter into the promised land because they did not enter into God’s rest. And in order to rest, you have to trust God that he’s going to get it done some way, somehow, however, rest requires trust, but when we don’t rest, we’re saying, “God, I can do it better than you.” When you rescue you restore yourselves, and your hormones, and your blood, and your pain, and then to take a time of Sabbath periodically in your ministry to get away, to just be with God, to take vacation, to enjoy your family, to enjoy God first, yourself and others.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Oh man.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Seeking first for kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and the promotion will be added on to you, and the relationships will be added on to you, and the healing will be added unto you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m really glad I asked that question because when I thought of being purposeful, I thought it meant that somehow we all decluttered our schedules a little bit, and didn’t have… That we weren’t as accomplishing as many things in ministry or in our work. And that might be part of it, but I think a lot of people such as yourself are purposeful about what you’re doing in accomplishing a great many things, but have the start of your day aligned so that everything, the rest of the day falls into place. Not that you have perfect days all the time, I don’t mean that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Uh-uh (negative).

Heidi Wilcox:
You understand what I’m saying?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
By no means no.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Is that a correct way to look at that?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. Like I said, I try to do it every day, but I may not make it every day, so I may catch it at noon, I may catch it at night, yeah, I’ll catch it sometimes, but nine times out of 10 or probably more to nine times out of 10, I’m going to read something or pick up something or read a book. I love reading through the Bible, I love… But I also love slow reading. What the scripture says, meditate on the word, day and night, and do according to all that is written there in Joshua 1:8 And then God says, I will make your way prosperous and you will have good success. So yes, we want to be prosperous, we want to have good success, but the prerequisite is to meditate on the word.

Heidi Wilcox:
Which is hard sometimes. And I want to ask about that because I think it’s super important, and it’s something that I try to do as well, but at least for me, it can turn into something that’s a checklist, and programmatic, and then if I miss it, then it comes with a little, well, maybe a lot of guilt for not getting it right that day. I mean, what can I do different? Because I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way. What can we do different so it’s like a joy that doesn’t come with the guilt?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. Absolutely. And one of the benefits of knowing various spiritual disciplines is not having a boring spiritual life, our spiritual life should be joyful. And one of the things that I like to do as it relates to reading the Bible, for me is not a checklist, I learned this from a few ladies several years ago to write notes on each page to someone, and so when I’m reading, I’m not reading to check it off I’m reading to write an impactful note to someone that can be a blessing for them. Like this morning, I read Psalm 142 and 143, as I mentioned earlier, and I have a Bible that I dedicate to, my granddaughter, our grandson. My that’s what we do, my [crosstalk 00:43:30].

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
… My grandchildren and a Bible that I dedicate to our son in love, and our daughter.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And so I’ve given our granddaughter her Bible, and I’m working on our grandson’s, but he’s only six. So I try to give it to them when I feel like their relationship with God is to a level of maturation they would appreciate it. But I know that they may not always get up and read the Bible every day, but they may look at what I wrote on a page, what I dated, what I said about that. And so this morning working on our daughter’s Bible, and Psalm 142, I said to her Vernay, Which is our daughter’s name. “God loves your soul.” So after reading Psalm 142, that was my takeaway. God loves your soul. And sometimes I go back and read what I wrote to them and it ministers to me. So that’s one way, or then maybe another day, I may just meditate on a scripture, that’s Lectio Divina, which I shared earlier.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And let’s look at Psalm 143:6 it says, I spread out my hands to you, my soul longs for you like a thirsty land. And then you may read that several times, and then you’ll choose a part of it that you want to focus on, my soul longs for you like a thirsty land, and you think about what a thirsty land looks like. Is dry, is parched, is hard, is lonely. And so we can picture our soul looking like that, or having some similarities about thirsty land. And then we may bring it in even closer, and say my soul longs for you, and then we could pray, God, our souls long for you, you are our hearts desire, feel us, feel me, heal me, deliver me, restore and refresh me.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And then I could come maybe to just one word, you, you are my heart’s desire, you are God, you are King, you are the Lord. You are awesome, you’re faithful, you are from everlasting to everlasting. And so I pause, I slow down, I meditate, I contemplate, I be, you be, and that makes your study or your reading, or you may get up and you made journal. In the book I talk about different ways of prayer, different ways of prayer. It’s in the beginning because people’s lifestyle of prayer also become stagnant.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. And I think I love this because I felt like it all had to be one way, but it could be different every morning if we wanted it to.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. But as we learn the disciplines we look at prayer. I talk about the prayer of ACTS, A-C-T-S acronym standing for Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving and Supplication, ACTS, A-C-T-S, adoring God first, confessing, giving God thanks, praying a prayer supplication. So you may do all one day, you may do all for two minutes, you may do all for two hours. You may just do adoration, you just may do confession, you just might do thanksgiving, and I’ll give scripture. But one that I also love is the prayer wheel that we find on page 50, and is spending an hour with the Lord and it’s designed of 12 segments of this will.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
The first one is praise, then waiting, confession, scripture, praying, watching, intercession, and so on. So the goal is to spend five minutes in each section of the prayer. But say you only got five minutes, so am I going to pick a couple of these? Am I going to do one of them? I’m going to look at number seven, petition, when I seek out for myself… And that’s one of the prayers I had to pray when I was plummeting down, my prayer was, help me.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Sometimes that’s just the prayer, that’s it.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And I said to the Lord, I said, “God, if you don’t help me, I will not be helped.” That was my prayer.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:49:23].

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And then also I love the prayer of listening, and that’s number 11 on the prayer wheel. So again, the prayer wheel is designed to spend five minutes in each category, praying five minutes in 12 of the categories which will total an hour. But don’t box ourselves in, God is creative. He’s very creative. And so listening…. I’ve spent a lot of time listening, Heidi.

Heidi Wilcox:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
I’ve a lot of years praying out loud, I’ve spent a lot of years interceding, I’ve spent a lot of years in warfare, and right now I’m going to listening state. I listen more than I talk.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So we’ve been talking all around your book, so I want to definitely talk about that a little bit more. Your book talks about Soul Care in African American Practice, which received Christianity Today’s Award of merit in the spiritual formation category, so that’s really awesome. Congratulations on that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. It talks about spiritual disciplines in the African American culture, and the way that it’s lived out in the rich heritage of its faith and community. And you talked about 10 different people in your book so that readers can see, and understand the disciplines and traditions of prayer, spiritual direction and soul care. How did you pick these people? And why was now the right time to write this book?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Well, I didn’t have anything to do with the timing because it took… This was a journey, when I started writing my thesis in 2009, I had no idea that portions of it would be part of a book. Of course there was a lot of editing and a lot of things that aren’t in the book that was in my thesis. For example, in my thesis, I write about all hauling spiritual direction, like spiritual direction from the concept of the mindset of the Apostle Paul. But I prayerfully search and read several sources and books about African Americans to come to identify these 10, and someone has identified them as saints, to identify these 10 saints who walked a life that exemplifies spiritual disciplines. One of the purposes of the book is to bring a legacy of people in the African-American community that practice spiritual disciplines, which needed to be identified.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Because we don’t have a Tilden Edwards, we don’t have Foster, we don’t have Dallas William, but we do have Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King and Howard Thurman, and Frederick Douglas, and so many others. And Dr. Renita Weems, and Dr. Darrell Griffin.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
So I felt the call to identify who they are, and what they do, as it relates to spirituality. And what disciplines I sense they practice, or if it had to be named like Frederick Douglas, identified with practicing the discipline of Lectio Divina, which framed it would probably never say he did any Lectio Divina, but he learned to read from his… He learned to read slowly from his master’s wife, Mrs. Old. And I really believe this from the bottom of my heart, not only was my task to identify these spiritual giants, but also one of my tasks was to identify and inception of spirituality in particular spiritual direction, from an African American perspective.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
We know we can go back to the fourth century, we know we can go back to the desert mothers and the desert fathers in particular to desert fathers, like our Tertullian, and Origen, and Augustine, because these are desert fathers from North Africa, I mean, like, come on, but that’s much earlier in the centuries, which is not necessarily… They weren’t transported to North America, but we must understand our African history.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
In all genres of the faith community, and give credence and credit to that history, and not skim over it. But as an African American, you can only have African Americans with the combination of African in American, and so as African Americans when did our spirituality begin. And so I propose that we were a people… I don’t propose, I know we were a people of strong spirituality on the continent of Africa, not only Christianity, but numerous a plethora of religions, but in order for our formation to emerge, it had to start somewhere. And for me, that starting point is the transatlantic, the middle passage, which brings us to the beginning of the book. And I like how we’ve backed into this. I’ve never backed into it like this I usually. Because we’ve already been to chapter 10 now we’re coming back to the introduction.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
So I proposed that people of African descent formation was in the middle passage, and I would like to read this to you. This is one of my favorite things on page 14.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh please do.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And for those of you that don’t have the book, I encourage you to get it. And I know how it will probably highlight that at the end.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh yes. Those-

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
For those of you that don’t have it, I mean, they do have it, we have a new workbook.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh wow.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
It’s a great workbook, that’s available on Amazon as well. But the reading on page 14, and I talk about Kelleman Edwards, and Robert Kelleman and Karole Edwards, and how they visualize the transporting of slaves from Africa to America. And they wrote in the book, Beyond the Suffering and Embracing the Legacy of African American Spiritual Direction in Soul Care, and I quote them, “Even while stowed like animals below deck, they saw the shining North star of God, with upturn eyes of faith, looking out spiritual portals.” I write at the bottom of page 14, going to 15, While in chains, many slaves express, great faith in God, the only one who could deliver them from such inhumane circumstances. Many were infected with ferocious diseases, including respiratory ailments, and fevers that accompanied infections. Moans and groans penetrated the atmosphere as a result of pain, sickness, sorrow and loss.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
No doctors were there to prescribe medications or apply appropriate selves, no preachers were there to perform eulogies, no food was there to feel hungry bellies in the midnight hour. During these challenging hours and days on slave ships, many Africana fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and cousins were attentive toward each others, weary tired and wounded soul. Many times their conversations kept them alive, care, love, and prayerful conversation were the best prescription for the oppress, imagine strangers listening to, caring for, and encouraging one another in such conditions. See them holding one another, even as they die, all too often, death wasn’t inevitable, and at times considered a more comforting option than life. Those who lived express their faith by believing and trusting God that a better day would come.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
It was on those slave ships making the middle passage that we find the origins of African American spiritual direction, and soul care. Even though the intent was to destroy black people, and to strip them of their heritage, God’s divine hand prevailed in the middle of the most inhumane conditions, the slaves were strengthened by bear spirituality. As Johnson mentioned, another author, slaves did not debate the existence of God, but wonder, and I quote “Whether God was with them in their struggle.” And my answer is, yes he was. He was there all the time. And this I identify as the beginning of soul care and spiritual direction from an African American perspective, as slaves were being transported, millions of them were transported, as slaves were being transported from the coast, the West Coast of Africa through the Atlantic, some dropped off South America to Caribbean, but mostly the majority on their way to the East coast of North America, Soul Care in African American Practice.

Heidi Wilcox:
One of the questions that I wanted to know is, what can Anglo Christians learn from the African American faith tradition?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
That we serve the same God. That in Christ, there is neither male nor female, or Gentile, black or white, that the same God that loves you, loves me. I’m made in the image of God, and you are made in the image of God. And if we move the layer of skin, we’re all the same.

Heidi Wilcox:
And [crosstalk 01:02:29].

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
We have more in common, than we do differently. And in the back of the book, I have a section entitled Connecting Prayer Spiritual Direction in Soul Care, and that’s how I pull it all together, that we’re really not that different.

Heidi Wilcox:
[crosstalk 01:02:53].

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
And that soul care is good for everybody, love is good for everybody. I have a quote here by Dr. Proctor, and a quote here by a doctor Gardner Taylor, but at the end of it, we’re not that different. And then I have a song that I liked to sing, and I’ll sing that before we close out when you’re ready.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Please do. I have two more questions that I want to ask you, So I think we’re ready for that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. The song goes like this, and I think this answers the question.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
(singing).

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s beautiful. If we all just put that into practice.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Thank you for sharing that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Heidi Wilcox:
Like I said, I have just a couple more questions to wrap the show up. Of course, as you mentioned, we’ll link to your book, your workbook, and we’ll link to your website as well, is that the best way if people want more information about you? Or want to contact you for any of the spiritual direction, offerings and workshops when we can have them again in person, is that the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes. Absolutely, yes. My website is fine.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. Did-

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Book, Soul Care in African American Practice you can order that from InterVarsity Press. It’s also in numerous other bookstores, but the main source is InterVarsity Press, and Amazon, and the workbook is on Amazon.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. Yes. We’ll definitely link all of that. I so enjoyed reading the book, I don’t think I told you to begin with that I really, really enjoyed it. I found it very helpful to me. So thank you for writing that.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Thank you. And thank you for having me. Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. We have one last question-

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Okay.

Heidi Wilcox:
… That we ask everybody who comes on the show, because the show is called, The Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Prayer. Prayer is-

Heidi Wilcox:
I could have guessed.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Prayer is like… I remember a workshop I taught several years ago, I entitled it, I Am Prayer, and prayer is the thing that… 1 Thessalonians 5, according to the Apostle Paul, tells us to do without ceasing. And 2 Chronicles 7:14 says, if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, God says, then I will hear from heaven, will give the sense and heal our land. And our land needs healing from the white house to the poor house. I wrote a poem about that when I was 14 years old, the healing of the land from the white house to the poor house, because I felt like I was in the poor house.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
But our land needs healing, and the antidote is prayer, but the prerequisite to healing is humility, and repentance. And until we humble ourselves and repent in the midst of our prayers of adoration and intercession and supplication and petition, and listening, the healing will not come. And I don’t know about you, but I’m ready for it.

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m ready for healing too.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
[inaudible 01:08:27].

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. So Dr. Peacock, thank you again. This conversation has been an absolute delight, and I can’t speak for all the listeners, but I can definitely speak for myself that we prayed before we got on the podcast, our listeners don’t know that, but you pray that it would be a blessing to each other and to the listeners. I don’t know about them because I can’t talk to each of them right now, but I do know about me, and this conversation was definitely a blessing to me. So thank you.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
Thank you, Heidi. And thank Dr. Bevin , and thank Asbury Seminary, and thank all of the listeners. I will be happy and delighted to connect with you, and I encourage you to just enjoy the journey, we all know we need to slow down to come away from the busyness and to adhere to Psalm 46:10, it says, be still and know that I am God.

Heidi Wilcox:
Absolutely. Thanks for leaving us with those words. Thank you so much.

Dr. Barbara L. Peacock:
God bless you. Have an awesome day.

Heidi Wilcox:
You too. Hey everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Peacock. I truly found this conversation to be a gift, and I hope you did as well. Just so grateful for Dr. Peacock, her work and her ministry, and truly the gift that her book, Soul Care in African American Practice, and her work is to the world, if you haven’t already make sure you grab a copy of the book, the workbook, wherever you love to buy a book. So it’s all linked out in the show notes as well as the web address for her ministry if you’d like more information. As always you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at @AsburySeminary until next time go do something that helps you thrive.