Today on the podcast, we kick off our centennial celebration with a conversation with Dr. Ron Smith, President of the Francis Asbury Society in Wilmore, Ky. Dr. Smith has a longtime relationship with FAS, first serving as a fellow and later an evangelist before becoming president. He has desired to live his whole life being “wholly devoted to God.”
Dr. Smith holds a special burden for mentoring students in higher education, and he and his family have hosted a weekly meeting for spiritual growth and study with college and seminary students for many years. In addition, he has written articles for many denominational and missional publications and has a special interest in producing substantive theological literature for the Church today.
In today’s conversation, you guys are in for a real treat. We get to know Dr. Smith a little bit more, which is a real treat, and we talk about his dissertation which is being published as a book called Henry Clay Morrison: Remembering the Old Paths. Ever the story teller, Dr. Smith gives us a little snapshot of the life and legacy of Asbury Seminary’s founder, Dr. Henry Clay Morrison.
Let’s listen!
*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.
Dr. Ron Smith, President of the Francis Asbury Society
Ron Smith has been the chief executive officer of the Francis Asbury Society three times now (1995–1998, 2012–2014, and 2020–present). He served as the first Fellow of FAS and also one of the first FAS evangelists. While God asked him to serve as president of a theological seminary as well as in pastoral ministry, Ron has maintained his deep covenant relationship with FAS, desiring to be “wholly devoted to God.”
Ron’s special burden is for mentoring students in higher education. He and his family have hosted a weekly meeting for spiritual growth and study with college and seminary students for many years. Ron has written articles for many denominational and missional publications and has a special interest in producing substantive theological literature for the Church today.
Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast
Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.
Show Notes
Guest Links
- Connect with Dr. Ron Smith
Transcript
Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive with Asbury Seminary podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast, we kick off our centennial celebration with a conversation with Dr. Ron Smith, president of the Francis Asbury Society in Wilmore, Kentucky. Dr. Smith has a longtime relationship with the Francis Asbury Society, first serving as a fellow with the Society and as an evangelist with the Francis Asbury Society. He has desired to live his whole life being wholly devoted to God. He holds a special burden for mentoring students in higher education, and he and his family have hosted weekly meetings for spiritual growth and study with college and seminary students for many years.
In addition, he has written many articles for many denominational and missional publications, and has a special interest in producing substantive theological literature for the church today. In today’s conversation, you guys are in for a real treat. We get to know Dr. Smith a little bit more and talk about his dissertation, which is being published as a book called Henry Clay Morrison: Remembering the Old Paths. Ever the storyteller, Dr. Smith gives us a little snapshot of the life and legacy of Asbury Seminary’s founder, Dr. Henry Clay Morrison. Let’s listen.
Well, Dr. Smith, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I know you already were a busy guy as president of the Francis Asbury Society, but now you’re also interim president of Ohio Christian University, so I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Well, it’s joy and I’ve been looking forward to it. We love the work that our brothers and sisters at Asbury Theological do every day. It’s one of the great streams of witness into our world, and so it makes it a special joy to be here. Thank you.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, yeah. So happy to have you. I’ve been looking forward to this as well. One of the things we’re going to talk about today is your dissertation on H.C. Morrison, who is the seminary’s founder, so I feel like we’re even more connected and just have really been looking forward to getting to know you a little bit as well.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Well, good. Thank you. And I’ll do my best just to share some of the thoughts that we’ve been thinking and the ministry that we’ve been doing, and thanks be to God.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So just to get us started, how did you experience your call to ministry?
Dr. Ron Smith:
I was at Asbury University, then called Asbury College, and it was the mid 1970s. I enrolled at Asbury College in 1973 as a new Christian with the influence of my pastor. And he was an Asburian and he was an Asburian in the ’50s when they had a real outpouring of God’s Spirit on the student body in a time of revival. And so there was always a sacred aura about his words when he thought about it, because you could see he was looking inward and seeing a great time of revival in Hughes Auditorium. And that meant something to me. I believe that I could see in his face, the face of God as he moved. And I wanted more about that and more of that. And substantively, I thought it would be wonderful to have more of God if there is such a thing, and I enrolled at Asbury.
And so I didn’t have a very inauspicious beginning though. It took me a little while to come from Southern New Jersey, non-Christian culture, to the Wilmore Asbury College culture. And I’m glad I made it through, Jesus was a bridge. And by my junior year at college at Asbury, I was elected class chaplain, but it was some of that approval of students saying, “Ron, share your faith in our midst and help us in our faith.” That enabled me to hear that maybe through the body of Christ, Christ was calling me to lean in like this. And I prayed about it.
And the beautiful thing about Wilmore is many, many wonderful people. In particular, Dr. Dennis Kinlaw made himself available to talk. And he was a loving mentor for me for years, and years, and years. And when you have a talking partner like Dr. Kinlaw, who Billy Graham said was the greatest Methodist mind of the 20th century, it’s like a thunderstorm, I’m just getting saturated. I’d ask him a question and I found that he enabled me to enlarge my coasts, just like the Jabez prayer. He took my mind and broadened the parameters of my thought life. And in the midst of it, I found Christ compellingly saying, “Ron, if you’ll follow, we’ll walk together for the redemption of the world.”
And that was a sacred invitation to me. I said, “Yes, Lord, I’ll follow.” And out of all the years of my ministry, I just finished my 45th year as an ordained man. In all of those years, difficulties though there have been many, I never felt like I wanted to do something else other than walk with Christ for the redemption of the world. It is a joy and I’m a happy camper in the middle of a profession called the ministry.
Heidi Wilcox:
What did that journey of walking with the Lord look like for you? Because you’re now president of Francis Asbury Society, but that wasn’t the first step for you. How did your ministry get started and what was the path that it took you to get to the point you’re at now?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah, okay. Well, in 1980, this was… Well, let me digress just a minute. I graduated from Asbury with a Bible degree and I also minored, I think I only lacked one course in having a second major in speech. I took a year off because I was involved in youth ministry and I was commuting weekend after weekend to my appointment, which was a couple hours away. And I took a year between college and seminary just to work full time in that youth ministry because it was escalating. We started with a youth group of about 29 and it went way up over 100. It was just a wonderful, wonderful opportunity. And I lived into that. And in the middle of that time, I was in a United Methodist Church that had about 700 people. The pastor had a very tragic auto accident and he was debilitated for about six months.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, no.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And even though I was there as the youth pastor, the district superintendent asked if I would be willing to start preaching on Sunday mornings for our morning services. And so I knew the group well, and they were so supportive, and I began a Sunday morning preaching ministry there during that time. And then I came back in 1979 to Asbury Seminary because I learned having to preach from 1978 to ’79, I had a lot of learning. And I came as a very eager student to Asbury Seminary in 1979. Well, by 1980, I met my wife and began a courtship for two years. So in 1982, I married a girl from the college that was in my brother, Doug’s class. He was at Asbury College while I was at Asbury Seminary. And that’s been great. She’s been my bride of 40 years. She’s never moved. She’s from South Shore, Kentucky. Her name is Dorina Lynn Richler from the class of ’82 at Asbury. She just had her 40th year reunion. And I had my 45th year reunion.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And it was a joy, even though we both got COVID-
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, no.
Dr. Ron Smith:
… after that time, but anyway. Dorina has been my bride and I feel so bad because she had never moved now being a Methodist pastor, and academic, and mission CEO, we’ve moved 10 times in various places. And so yes, Ohio Christian University is number 10.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Even though I’m commuting back and forth to our little farm in Kentucky, we don’t know what the future holds, but we are leaning hard into this year as an intern and I still am very active with our society of course. And we’re just taking it one semester at a time, but the Churches of Christ in Christian Union are helping the Francis Asbury Society and World Mission, so it’s a very wonderful arrangement.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, it sounds like a good partnership there.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So you mentioned your calling that you experienced at the university or college, it was college when I was there too, but the university now, has your view of calling changed over the years expanded? How do you define calling?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Okay. The foundations of my call have been marvelously built upon for further and further acclimation. My call began to come when people from the Body of Christ recognized certain gifts and graces that they enjoyed learning from the teaching or speaking of the Word or testifying in my life. And I felt like they were saying to me, “We think it would be a great idea if your life was set apart to do just that.” And so I began to think for the first time about ministry as vocation, by the external witness in the Body of Christ, but they turned me internally to a witness where I began to have an inner dialogue with God. And I felt God was in fact saying to me, “Ron, the people in my body I’m using to help direct you into a life of ministry to which I’m calling and equipping you.” And then of course the whole Asbury experience was equipping me. There’s no question that my spiritual life was formed at Asbury College and Asbury Theological Seminary.
Heidi Wilcox:
Because you would’ve been there during the time of the revival at the college. Is that right?
Dr. Ron Smith:
The senior class when I was there in 1973 as a freshman, had been through the 1970 revival.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, okay.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And I could see in their lives, the impact of that revival. And I could see in their lives, the very faces of our faculty when they spoke about the revival that they’d been with God in an incredible way.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So you kind of got some of the fallout from that.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
I caught some of the thundershowers of the gospel rain that saturated them at that time.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So you pastored as a United Methodist pastor for several years. How did you then go on to become president of the Francis Asbury Society?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Okay. I mean, it’s a wonderful question. I was happily engaged in local church ministry in the Greater New Jersey annual conference, my wife and I loved the pastoral ministry. And I had a desire though in the midst of that ministry to continue to read and study substantive thoughts, so I had something to invest in the lives of the hungry people that were coming to hear the Word of God. And I enrolled in Princeton Theological Seminary to take a master’s degree in intellectual history, in the history of Christian thought. And when I enrolled there, I began to have a dialogue with Dr. Kinlaw because he was coming frequently to the Southern New Jersey annual conference.
Now, one reason why Southern New Jersey was so open to the Asbury movement is the third president of Asbury Theological Seminary, Dr. Frank Bateman Stanger was from Southern New Jersey.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh really?
Dr. Ron Smith:
And so our New Jersey conference was saturated with the best he could put forward from the Asbury movement in God’s world. And there was a real connection. And also, Dennis Kinlaw had studied at Princeton Theological Seminary. And so we began having some substantive talks. And then Dr. Kinlaw said, “Well, Ron, while you’re going forward, why don’t you move to Wilmore? Because you’re going to have to write a dissertation, you’re going to have to take comprehensive exams. Why don’t you come and join the Francis Asbury Society and you will be the first Francis Asbury fellow and we’ll set you apart and we’ll lean into you to help you so that we can be the village that supports you while you’re in this level of study?” And that captured my heart.
And I recognized one thing, our church was growing so much that it would’ve been unfair to the church if I had remained as pastor in the labor-intensive parts of my studies. And so I handed the reins over to very capable leadership and I stepped out on a conference approved sabbatical, I guess, for an educational appointment. And that’s how I moved to Wilmore, Kentucky as a fellow for the Francis Asbury. And I brought my wife and my little girls. They were three years old and two years old when we moved back to Wilmore.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh my
Dr. Ron Smith:
On Maxey Street.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
So I lived right next to a great seminary professor of yours, Dr. David Bauer.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yes.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Right across the street was a long-time music leader at the college, Dr. Jack Rains. And then three houses up was Dr. Bill Goold.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Dr. Thelma Goold. And so they were all neighbors that helped me raise my little daughters in a block full of Christians that just loved on my children.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s wonderful. That’s a wonderful environment. And then you had the personal environment and then the academic environment.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s wonderful. So then you just grew from a fellow into what you are.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes, that’s kind of so, I began doing the work and kind of unexpectedly, they began to ask me to participate in revivals. And then I was asked to preach a revival at Asbury College, the fall revival, three of us, Roy Lauder from the college, who’s a tremendous revivalist as you know, Dr. John Oswalt, and I, myself, and Dr. David Gyertson. The four of us team preached the Asbury College revival in the fall. And I’d like to say thank you to Dr. David Gyertson for taking a risk on a young man and opening up a pulpit to me. That’s always been a sweet affection I have that he would open a door like that and welcome me as a colleague.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. So you alluded to your dissertation with Princeton and that’s one of the reasons that you moved back here. That’s also one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today. So you wrote your dissertation about H.C. Morrison.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes. But I shifted years from Princeton.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, okay.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Drew, where Dr. Tom Oden was.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, okay. So that’s where you wrote-
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Dr. Oden, in my opinion, probably wrote the best Wesleyan systematic theology trilogy in the 20th century. I know that’s a big statement, but I think I can defend that. And other wonderful scholars like Dr. Leroy Lindsey, who spent his time in Mexico with OMS and WGM missionaries. And Dr. Chris Bounds, who was at Asbury College, he’s an Asbury Seminary graduate as well, is the chair of the division of philosophy and religion at Indiana Wesleyan University, was a classmate. Dr. Neil Anderson, long-time professor at Asbury College was a classmate. And so we had lots of Asburians at Drew studying with Dr. Oden. And Dr. Kinlaw, as my mentor, made me first wonder why there hadn’t been more written academically on Morrison. And Dr. Kinlaw shared with me a powerful story at some point in our podcast, I’ll share that with you, but Henry Clay Morrison helped Dr. Kinlaw’s father find the assurance of the saving work of God in his life.
Heidi Wilcox:
Really? That’s awesome.
Dr. Ron Smith:
One day, Dr. Kinlaw’s father came home and Dennis Kinlaw was a 13-year-old little boy, and he told the family, “Pack up, we’re going to Indian Springs Camp Meeting where Dr. Henry Clay Morrison is preaching.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And so those of faith that were so warm in Dr. Kinlaw’s heart resonated with me because Dr. Kinlaw had this way of being able to share with people. You just got fired up, I don’t know any other way. I played athletics in school and things, and the coach would try to fire the team up, but when it came to theology, and holiness, and wanting more of God, Dr. Kinlaw, he fired me up. So I think that’s how I got onto the Morrison work. And it was such a sacred work because he’s such a revered founder at Asbury Theological Seminary.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So it was because of that story that you spent, I think you told me off the podcast, about a decade of work researching H.C. Morrison?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
A solid decade of work researching H.C. Morrison.
Heidi Wilcox:
That’s amazing. I mean, I guess that story, but then as you’re picking a dissertation, why was then the right time to write about Henry Clay? And I think it’s also being turned into a book, is that right? Your dissertation?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes, it’s coming out this very semester and it will be ready for the Centennial of Asbury Theological Seminary.
Heidi Wilcox:
Excellent.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Not in a formal way. Nobody’s asked me to do the defacto work, but just because the Francis Asbury Society is a kindred spirit institution with Asbury Theological Seminary, we try to find works that are pertinent and substantive for where our sister schools are. And we’re in the balcony cheering section for Asbury Theological Seminary and Asbury University.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure.
Dr. Ron Smith:
If you tell evangelists, they get an extra star in the crown if, when they’re preaching, they can bring a student back to either side of the street at Asbury, they would.
Heidi Wilcox:
What was one of the favorite anecdotes that you learned about Henry Clay Morrison as you researched and wrote the dissertation?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Okay. I have a fabulous story. In 1966, Billy Graham was doing the world Congress on evangelism and he was in East Berlin and the wall was still up, it wasn’t down. And Graham in his second sermon was lamenting the fact that when somebody said the word evangelist in the United States of America, the icon, the mental image that came to a person’s mind trended towards corruption, because there had been scandals where well-known evangelists had so excellent in their Christian faith, that they were almost seen as womanizers in the sense that the trajectory of their life was very difficult because they chose sin rather than continuing.
And then some evangelists that were taking pledges and buying, at the time, $15 million airplanes, and $15 million in that day was like $60 million today, and $5 and $6 million homes. And Graham was just lamenting that, that that was the image. And he said, “I’d like to take you to what the image was somewhere around the time of the Civil War in the United States of America.” And he told the story about an evangelist that was a circuit rider, much like the statue on the corner of Lexington Avenue, where the seminary property begins.
The circuit rider on a horse was riding on the road from Glasgow, Kentucky to Perryville, a major thoroughfare. And he was reading the Bible out loud. And so he had the Bible in front of him riding his horse, and it made quite an iconic picture. And as he rode by a farm outside of Glasgow on the road to Perryville, a curly headed, small statured, 13-year-old boy was hoeing corn in the cornfield. And Graham told the story that when the circuit rider rode by this little boy later wrote in his journal, he fell down in the field and gave his heart to God.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Dr. Graham said, “Why can’t we recover that as the image of what or who an evangelist is in our world, that when they ride by, they’re so filled with the riches of the Word of God and dwelling them richly, that little boys can fall down and cry out and give their hearts to God?” And that little 13-year-old boy was Henry Clay Morrison.
Heidi Wilcox:
Really?
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Henry Clay Morrison then went on to be a two-time president of Asbury College and a two-time board member. He went on a world evangelism tour. And at the turn of the 20th century, Dr. Henry Clay Morrison’s periodical, The Pentecostal Herald, was the most widely circulated religious periodical in the United States of America.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow, that’s amazing.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And so then you’ve already heard the story about how Dr. Morrison helped win Dr. Kinlaw’s father, and then 13-year-old Dennis Kinlaw, and 13-year-old Albert L. Luce Jr. came forward to an altar call to go all the way with God. And they knelt and prayed side by side. Later, Albert L. Luce Jr. would go on to be one of the three brothers that took the Blue Bird bus company out of Fort Valley, Georgia, all the way to the top. They were the largest bus company in the world.
And Dr. Kinlaw went on to become the president of Asbury College after having been Old Testament professor at Asbury Theological Seminary. And when I came upon the scene, working with Dr. Paul Blair, who now also resides in Wilmore, Kentucky, and has for most of his life, we had the privilege of being in the Francis Asbury Society when Dr. Luce, that 13 year old that prayed alongside of Dennis Kinlaw, that 13 year old who founded the Francis Asbury Society, Dr. Luce gave the donation that made the building of our international headquarters possible in Wilmore, Kentucky. And I believe it’s one of the great stories of Methodism in the 19th and 20th centuries. And it runs right through the heart of Asbury Theological Seminary.
Heidi Wilcox:
It sure does.
Dr. Ron Smith:
I believe today that there’s something that the world doesn’t yet know that there is a movement of conservative Christian orthodoxy steeped in Wesley and holiness, proclaimed by evangelists, lived by missionaries, that is gone to the utter ends of the earth, and I think we should call it the Asbury movement because Henry Clay Morrison believed it started through the itinerant ministry of a Francis Asbury who rode his horse, and it was one of those successive horse riders that enabled him to fall down and give his heart to God. And so there’s a direct line to me today. I’m sitting in a chair, but I always envision myself sitting on the back of a horse because that is laden a tremendous claim on my life.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. I didn’t realize the connection to H.C. was so directly connected to you and so personal.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes, it was. And so it was just a joy to try to bring Dr. Morrison, who was in ways like a folk hero, to the academy. And Drew University had enough imagination to allow me to bring him and for them to live out the richness of our Methodist faith through Morrison and study it as he went from the traditional high period of Protestantism in 19th century America into the early years of modernity in the 20th century.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, so I found it interesting that Henry Clay was born just a little bit before the American Civil War. And you talked a little bit about in your dissertation, so I’m hoping you’ll talk to this afternoon about how being born during that time period really affected him and then his belief systems as he grew up later.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah. Well, in my dissertation, I say that the question of the age for Henry Clay Morrison was, how can a nation stop the war in its own soul? Because the church didn’t get it done. A tremendous thesis was written by a professor named C.C. Goen, G-O-E-N. And it was called Broken Churches, Broken Nation. And he believed if Protestantism was at its all-time high in 19th century America, there should have been enough Christian impulse there to keep us from Civil War, but instead the churches broke over the issue of slavery and how I wish today we could have had the success in America that Wilberforce had in England because Wilberforce as a Methodist is credited with extricating, extricating the movement of slavery in the UK. And I wish our Methodist could have gotten that done at that age in America. We could have saved ourselves such sin, and tragedy, and grief, and racism.
But during that time, Dr. Morrison knew as a little boy that the soul of the nation was divided. And he wondered even as a young boy, he wondered, “Is there anything that could stop the war in one soul?” And of course, as he grew up into being able to reason abstractly and think those thoughts, he turned to John Wesley’s ideals on Christian perfection, that all of us find ourselves in an inner war, so that along with the old King James tongue twister of the Apostle Paul, “That which I would not let do, I do. That do I do, I would not. O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death?”
And Morrison found that the deliverer was a savior who not only saved a person from the penalty of sin, so they could go to heaven. He came in the third person of God to every believer’s heart to work the Goodwill and pleasure of holiness under the Lord through our lives and lay such a claim on us, that instead of being sinner saved by grace, we were saints sanctified by the third person of God to live lives under holiness. And Morrison found that the third person of God could put to death the deeds of the flesh in his inner man that wage war against righteousness and help him be consecrated, and these are the words of Francis Asbury, “Wholly devoted to God.”
And that was a kind of Wesleyan faith that he loved to proclaim and Wilmore, Kentucky was so impacted by that, that Morrison thought he wanted to throw his life in with those folks from Wilmore to be able to educate Christians in that glorious reality that those who were free in Christ are free indeed by the magnanimous work of God’s Spirit, through his presence, living in us. And I would that I were a stellar example of that, but I want to say I’m a stellar pursuer of that kind of faith that saves to the utter most. And I love to be in the stead of Morrison and Asbury himself in proclaiming that truth as part of what we call free salvation for all men on the cornerstone of our building, full salvation from all sin, meaning he not only saves us from sins penalty, but he empowers us to be God’s holy men, God’s holy women by grace through faith.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. So Henry Clay had quite a life as an evangelist. Well, and even just growing up. I remember reading that his father was killed in the Civil War and that he struggled with fear of death and that was very pervasive in his life. And then as he grew, accepted Christ as you have told that story. And then married a couple times because his wives passed away, and he had this traveling life. Can you tell me a little bit about his grown-up life and then lead us to the point where he… I’ll ask you another question, but then lead us to the point about where he became president of Asbury Seminary.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah, wonderful. Well, Dr. Morrison went on to grow through his childhood and into a powerful Christian experience. And a pastor, an evangelist by the last name of Jones made an impression upon him. And he felt like he wanted to be an evangelist, he wanted to be able to preach like Reverend Jones. Reverend Jones preached at High Bridge.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And High Bridge Union Church grew out of his revival. And Morrison felt like he was the most articulate order he’d ever heard, and Morrison wanted to be like him. And of course, Morrison made quite a dramatic fashion. He always preached in a Prince Albert coat with tails, with tales. And he had that long flowing hair. He looked like a prophet. And so he began to ride the circuit and preach wherever they let him. And the Methodists gave him one opportunity after another, after another. And Dr. Morrison grew as a Methodist preacher and a great revivalist. He went to Vanderbilt to try to study more, but then felt like after a year study at Vanderbilt, he’d rather be preaching in the field than studying in the academy, even though he did well at Vanderbilt. And I can verify this because I went to Vanderbilt and studied his transcripts.
He made many, many friends at Vanderbilt University. And by the first 10 years of the 20th century, the Christian Century periodical named Dr. Morrison as one of the 20 greatest orators Christian advocates of the 20th century. Later, when the Methodist Church was reunified because it had split, the south, Southern Methodist broke with the Methodist Episcopal church in the North, but it came back together. And the North said that the greatest acquisition of the Southern Methodist church coming back in was the evangelist Henry Clay Morrison. And so he was a beloved, treasured speaker in Methodism, and he carried a torch for education more than we’ve yet known.
I could go back and I’m sure could write a monograph because I think I can prove now that Henry Clay Morrison raised more money in Methodist education, because remember, the Methodists then owned Duke University, the University of Syracuse, Boston University, the University of Southern California, DePaul University. All of these universities were owned by the United Methodists. Well, not United Methodists. It was just Methodist Episcopal then. And they made Dr. Henry Clay Morrison a champion for education. And he led the wealthiest accrual of charitable gifts for education, Christian education in the world at the time. So much that when he was on a boat trip back from preaching, FDR was on the boat and heard about Morrison’s pursuits. And he asked if Henry Clay Morrison would come and share his story in the United States Senate Chamber.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Which he did. Right. And so Morrison carried a torch for education. But even after serving two terms as president of Asbury, his heart was to train up a sanctified leadership that would give themselves in ministry and know Wesley’s doctrine of entire sanctification so that Christians could gain the power through the living presence of the third person of God to be well equipped for ministry. And he felt like that was a different kind of minister that had that Christian experience than the ones who didn’t. As a matter of fact, Morrison liken ministers who didn’t have that experience to Nadab and Abihu in the Pentateuch, who when they bypassed the labor of consecration, they went in and sought to go to the holy place unconsecrated and they lost their lives. And Dr. Henry Clay Morrison said, “To be fully consecrated for ministry, one has to have that living witness and presence of the Holy Spirit.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. The second work of grace, as it sometimes gets called in the Methodist seminary circle, that was a really big deal for him as he… Because I remember you talking about split might be too controversy, I think is a better word, that you’re alluding to now with a group that did strongly believe in that. And then, the group that didn’t believe in the second work of grace. And Morrison spent his life promoting that. And was that why he founded the seminary? How did the seminary come to be?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes, he founded the seminary precisely for those reasons. He felt like people, in Romans fashion, that were filled with the Spirit of God were also led by the Spirit of God. And he often heralded the news in Romans eight, that as many are led by the Spirit of God, are the children of God. So he saw that leading of God’s Spirit as essential to the salvation experience that he called full salvation. And it was quite a line of distinction for him. He wanted to raise what he called a spirit-filled ministry that could proclaim that truth.
Now, just a little story about that. When Morrison was asked to preach in Texas, there was quite a war going on about this. And I believe this was Waco, Texas, although I’d have to go back and look because he had several of these controversial experiences in Texas, but the Methodist church down there said they weren’t going to let Morrison be an approved speaker because he insisted on preaching on holiness and they were tired of that. They felt the holiness people were causing a division in the denomination. And so the mayor of the town so wanted Morrison to come. He said, “Well, you don’t have to preach in the church. I’ll put a tent up in the town, Dr. Morrison. And you come preach in the tent and the town will come.” And so Morrison was invited and he went.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
They had a phenomenal revival. And Morrison was leaving there to take a train trip up to Baltimore to be a keynote speaker on the World Methodist conference platform in Baltimore. But while he was traveling after that tent revival in Texas, all the way up to Baltimore, when his train arrived in Baltimore, the person that was to pick him up, picked him up and gave him the news that the superintendent had put a grievance in the Methodist church because he spoke in the tent and he was unauthorized by any superintendent and they defrock him of his credentials.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, my.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And so they informed Dr. Morrison that, “All right, if you don’t have your credentials, we can’t let you preach on the Methodist comfort.” So one of the biggest opportunities of his life, he was censored from speaking because a pastor got mad he did a tent meeting in Texas. Well, I have to tell you the rest of the story, because this is glorious. It’s all in your heritage at Asbury Theological Seminary. Dr. Morrison followed the gentleman that was to pick him up from the train station to his home Bible study because he had a little Methodist church in Frederick, Maryland. And he said, “I only have between 30 and 40 people, but Dr. Morrison, why don’t you come and speak to our people?” And so Dr. Morrison did.
And at the end of his speaking at that little country meeting that night, a 13 year old boy came and said he wanted to follow Christ in his entirety and he dedicated himself. And that 13 year old boy, now think of the name 13 or think of the 13-year-old experience that we’ve been having, 13 year old E. Stanley Jones-
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, my.
Dr. Ron Smith:
… set his heart for the ministry, went on to become one of the most decorated ministers missionaries of the 20th century, knew Mahatma Gandhi, and had such a godly influence on India and a prolific author. And now at Asbury Theological Seminary, you have the E. Stanley Jones School of World Evangelist, World Mission and Evangelism. Morrison at 13 fell down when the circuit rider rode by. He got Kinlaw where he was 13 at a camp meeting. And because he got cut for preaching a camp meeting in Texas, he went to a little church in Frederick, Maryland, and that’s where he found E. Stanley Jones.
Heidi Wilcox:
My goodness.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Morrison said, “Don’t ever let your disappointment move you away from what God has in his appointment for you.”
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That really is incredible, the influence that Henry Clay has had, not just… I mean, it really is on this institution, but then on some of the little, the extra people in the… We wouldn’t have E. Stanley Jones, right?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Right.
Heidi Wilcox:
So it’s not just the seminary, but the influence he had that spread really around the world now, when you think of the ripple effect of that.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yes.
Heidi Wilcox:
So could you tell me-
Dr. Ron Smith:
And Dr. Morrison won J.C. McFeeters. And of course, Dr. McFeeters, all the way up to his nineties frequented Asbury’s campus as our second great president in the university.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh yes. Yes, for sure. Can you tell me about Dr. Morrison’s early years as president of the seminary?
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah, sure. Well, of course we’re celebrating 100 years in 2023. So you go back 100, that takes you to 1923.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yep.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Dr. Morrison began to invest his life in pursuing young people for a holiness ministry in the Methodist church. And at that time, you named something, death was so prevalent. I think when Morrison was born, the average life expectancy was between 38 years and 45 years of age for a Methodist preacher that was itinerating.
Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, my.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And so death without modern medicine was very prevalent. And of course he was orphaned and he was a widower several times. And Morrison himself struggled with health. And by the time he was trying to establish Asbury Seminary, he was struggling with health. All of his days at Asbury Seminary until his death, he struggled with his health, but I can tell a great story in his Vanderbilt years, Morrison had a godson who later grew up to be the secretary of education in the United States of America.
Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.
Dr. Ron Smith:
And when Asbury Seminary was founded at its opening consecration service, the secretary of education for the United States of America was present to see his godfather, Dr. Morrison begin this new venture and put his blessing upon it. That’s awesome, isn’t it?
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s really cool.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
We’ve hinted at it at several different ways. And I know we’re almost out of time, so I just have a couple more questions for you. What legacy do you see Dr. Morrison leaving for us today?
Dr. Ron Smith:
I think Dr. Morrison in the words of A.W. Tozer, is an icon for people following him in the pursuit of God, to pursue a life holy consecrated to God, by the living presence of God, the third person, the Spirit of God, who is named Holy Spirit in our lives, is a privilege of salvation. The saving work in the grace of God that can lay a tremendous claim for ministry. And Morrison believed that the Holy Spirit could deliver a human being from self-interest so that when self was dealt with, and self-interest wasn’t reining Supreme, but the pursuit of God was reigning Supreme, then God had the believer’s attention, so that that believer could then be free to walk with God for the redemption of the world. And I believe that’s a legacy of faith that Dr. Morrison has left for all of us in the Asbury world.
Heidi Wilcox:
For sure. We have one question that we ask everybody, but before I do that, is there anything else you’d like to say that we haven’t already talked about?
Dr. Ron Smith:
I don’t think so.
Heidi Wilcox:
Okay.
Dr. Ron Smith:
It’s a terrible thing to have to interview an intellectual historian that has to tell the whole story. I ask your forgiveness. And for all of our listeners, I’m sorry.
Heidi Wilcox:
No, this has been great. I was hoping for a snapshot of Henry Clay Morrison’s life. And I wish we could talk about it more because he did so many things and I feel like we’ve just barely touched on it, so I really appreciate the stories that you shared and the time that you’ve taken.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Yeah.
Heidi Wilcox:
So one question that we ask everybody, because the show is called the Thrive With Asbury Seminary podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?
Dr. Ron Smith:
That I learned at Asbury Theological Seminary?
Heidi Wilcox:
It doesn’t have to be that you learned at Asbury, it can be something that you’re doing now that you picked up along the way. It can be from Asbury, it can be just something that’s helping you thrive.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Well, something that’s helping me thrive right now almost corresponds to the economic climate in the United States of America. And there’s such a downturn in the economy, so many pensions have lost so much money for people retiring in ministry. That’s close to my heart right now because at age 72, they’re going to make me retire as an ordained United Methodist. But what makes me thrive is when we invest right in the times of difficulty, the Lord enables those investments, like in the parable of the talents, to help us thrive as Kingdom people. And I don’t see the challenge in what some have called the cultural convulsions from 2020 to 2022, that upheaval convulsions, if you will, cultural convulsions. I don’t see those as a disadvantage for people in the Christian faith. I see it as an opportunity in the downturn to so invest in trusting the captain of our salvation to lead us through the difficult moment that there can be a song of victory as we go.
And just like that circuit rider who rode past Dr. Morrison reading the scriptures, I think the people of God with the word of God and the joyous song of God on our hearts, is something that is very gracious to the ears of people who’ve been saturated with bad news at this time. And I’m finding that at Ohio Christian University, students just make a way for me to come and to share. And I listen to their stories of faith and it’s a beautiful time to thrive today as we look to be holy devoted to him.
Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. Well, Dr. Smith, thank you so much for taking the time to share today. It has been a pleasure to learn more about you and to learn more about the seminaries founder, Dr. Morrison.
Dr. Ron Smith:
Well, thank you, Heidi. And we celebrate 100 years and I want to close by saying I celebrate the tremendous godly leadership that Dr. Tim Tennent and Julie Tennent are giving to our institution because we see in them the thriving currents that were carried by Dr. Morrison. And we are able to say in our spirits about Asbury, the Lord has done great things whereof we’re glad.
Heidi Wilcox:
For sure, for sure.
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Ron Smith, president of the Francis Asbury Society. What a great way to kick off our Centennial celebrations to have a conversation with Dr. Smith and learn more about our founder, Henry Clay Morrison, and the legacy that he has left for those in the seminary community. If you see or know Dr. Smith, be sure to tell him, thank you ever so much for being part of today’s conversation and for the work that he is doing in the world. As always, you can follow Asbury Seminary in all the places on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @AsburySeminary. Until next time, I hope you’ll go do something that helps you thrive.
