Dr. Girma Bishaw–The Gratitude Initiative

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Overview

Today on the podcast, I had the real privilege of talking to Rev. Dr. Girma Bishaw. Dr. Bishaw is a 2019 Asbury Seminary alum and presently serves as the director of The Gratitude Initiative  in Great Britain. The Gratitude Initiative is a charity that exists to promote the sharing of gratitude to change the social imagination that leads to relational transformation, a fulfilled self, a sense of belonging, and a harmonious and just society.

They’re formally launching the Gratitude Initiative on November 28, and we talk about what The Gratitude Initiative is, Girma’s own story of developing a lifestyle of gratitude, the benefits to us of making gratitude a practice, not just in the month of November, but throughout the entire year and ways that looking for the good can help us resolve conflict and build unity in our own communities.

Let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Rev. Dr. Girma Bishaw, Director of the Gratitude Initiative in Great Britain

Rev. Dr. Girma Bishaw presently serves as the director of Gratitude Initiative a charity that exists to promote the sharing of gratitude to change the social imagination that leads to relational transformation, a fulfilled self, a sense of belonging, and a harmonious and just society in Britain. Before founding Gratitude Initiative, Dr. Bishaw had served as a pastor of the Ethiopian Christian Fellowship Church, whereby he played a key role in the planting of diaspora churches in London as well as across the UK. Dr. Bishaw is also the founding director of Life Festival Enterprise (LiFE), a charity which endeavours to galvanise local churches, diasporic or native, to respond collectively and creatively to the missional opportunity created by migration in the UK. He also works with The London Project; an organization started to enhance city-wide missional collaboration, as a movement catalyst. He sits on the Cinnamon Network and Global Connection advisory council and London City Mission (LCM) Ministry Reference Panel. He is also a member of the Missio Africanus Leadership team. Dr. Bishaw has a degree in Theology and Christian ministry from Regents Theological College, a Master’s degree in theological education from University of London (King’s College London) and completed his doctoral studies at Asbury Theological Seminary, Kentucky, USA. Dr. Bishaw is married to Yodit, and together they have a son and a daughter. He enjoys good food, a good book and good company.

 

 

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the worlds deep need. Today on the podcast I had the real privilege of talking to Reverend Dr. Girma Bishaw.

Heidi Wilcox:
Dr. Bishaw is a 2019 Asbury Seminary alum and presently serves as the director of the Gratitude Initiative in Great Britain. The Gratitude Initiative is a charity that exists to promote the sharing of gratitude to change the social imagination, that leads to relational transformation, a fulfilled self, a sense of belonging and a harmonious and just society. So they’ll be formally launching the Gratitude Initiative on November 28th and we talk a little bit about that in the podcast. We talk about what the Gratitude Initiative is, Girma’s own story of developing a life style of gratitude, the benefits of us to making gratitude a practice, not just in the month of November, but throughout the entire year. And ways that looking for the good can help us resolve conflict and build unity in our own communities. Let’s listen. You have been a pastor, a church planner, and you have worked with and founded organizations with the goal of empowering others. Could you tell us a little bit about your call to ministry?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So I came to know the Lord while I was back home in Ethiopia, so originally I’m from Ethiopia. So I came to Britain in 1990. I came to know the Lord personally two years prior to coming to Britain. And I came here and I joined Ethiopian church, well, it wasn’t a church actually, it was a fellowship. And I was kind of discipled there and then eventually on my conviction intent to ministry grew in me. Previously, my interest was in accounting, I was studying accounting back home. So my plan was to continue doing that, but I felt that the Lord was calling me to ministry.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
It was a very natural progress like being burdened by first, an urge to disciple people, to have heart for new converts. And then, as I give myself to it, trying to disciple and teach follow up classes. It naturally grew in me and eventually I responded to that call. And I did my first degree in Theology and Christian Ministry, and that had a practical engagement to mission and doing Orthodox ministries alongside the studies. And after I graduated, for my university, doing my first degree. I came back to the church and started doing the discipleship and teaching new converts classes. The fellowship became church in Abilene, it a very informal fellowship, but the fellowship grew through time. And in 1998, the fellowship called me to be a pastor of the church. So since 1998, I have been a pastor and Ethiopian, Eritrean Church until 2014.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay, wow. How did you come from Ethiopia to Britain?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So I came to Britain, not really out of interest or because I wanted to go out. It was Ethiopia was in civil war with Eritrea, and it was under the communist regime. So the government was taking young people to the war front. The war that we didn’t believe, because it was a civil war and we’re brothers and sisters, and we didn’t really believe in the war. And also the government was not giving adequate training for the people they were recruiting. So I used to see quite a lot of people coming back from war, amputated, and a lot of things are happening. So I had to leave the country at the time. I didn’t know anything about Britain. And so by sheer providence, by God’s grace, I was given a tourist visa. And that was just funny, because, if any young person leaves Ethiopia at that time, they knew that we were not going back. But still, I don’t know how I got the visa to come to Britain, as a young man, with a tourist visa. So that’s how I came to Britain.

Heidi Wilcox:
That would be difficult, I’m sure to have to leave under those conditions.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
It was very difficult because that was the first time leaving my family. And I didn’t know anybody in Britain, and I wasn’t expecting to meet anyone at the airport. And I had $250 in my pocket, It was the faith I had in God that really sustained me through that time. But yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow, from the very beginning, you were adopted at first by the Ethiopian Christian Fellowship Church. And then just grew in your role, and became been a layperson to having a leadership role.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Exactly. And I’m really grateful to God, because, people have witnessed my progress in my discipleship, in my relationship with Christ and in ministry as well through time. And to be acknowledged by the church and the people who knew you from the beginning. And to endorse you as a pastor was a great honor.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Because, you started the Gratitude Initiative in 2015. Because you said, you stopped pastoring, full-time in 2014. Why was 2015 the right time to start the Gratitude Initiative?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
One of the struggles I had, when I was a pastor in Ethiopian church. It was a very effective ministry, in a way. We had another two, three pastors afterwards. And we were planting churches, and our congregation was relatively big, considering where we are. But my main struggle, was the fact that we are in Britain but we were doing ministry to Ethiopian and Eritrean congregation. And we are speaking our language, we preach in our language, but we leave and associate and work together with the wider community. But when it comes to church, we can’t be able to invite them to our church, because, they don’t speak our language. I became unsettled with that, so I keep on asking, are we here just to reach our own ethnicity or how can we be a blessing for Britain, how can we be a part of the work of God in Britain, what it what does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus Christ in a diaspora context? So that question became really persistent my heart and my mind.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And also, as I said to you, I have a heart of gratitude for Britain. Because, as I told you, I came with $250 in my pocket, knowing absolutely nothing and no one. I was received, I was accepted, and I was given a place to live and money to live by, opportunity to study and to become a contributor in the society. So I was really grateful of the generosity that I have experienced in Britain. So there is that aspect of gratitude in my heart throughout. So I’m always thankful of the generosity that I have seen and experienced in Britain. Although I was grateful, there wasn’t any platform where I can say thank you to the British people or kind of the generosity to really share what it means for me to be Britain. So that aspect of my gratitude was there in my heart. And this questioning of the limitation and the exclusiveness of our ministry bothered me a lot.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And then I started to connect with churches around the area, and then started to see, a very diverse churches in the area. With native churches, the Church of England, other ethnic churches, and other denominations. I just keep on going to them in their pastoral meetings and whatever meeting. And started to connect and tied asking how can we collaborate, how can we work together, how can we be a blessing to the community around us? And that is when I started the Life Festival Enterprise, where we galvanized the local churches to do mission together in a local park. That became instrumental.

Heidi Wilcox:
So Life Enterprise, or Life Festival Enterprise was the precursor to the Gratitude Initiative with several different churches coming together for one service, is that right?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
That’s right. So in the process of starting that festival, I discovered that there are animosities, there were resentments. And when people come together, the unity is very superficial. That there were issues that they were not comfortable to talk about. If you know what I mean?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes, I do.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
In the night I tried to talk to them. When I’m with ethnic minorities, or with my nonwhite friends, the conversation is different, when we are together with them. And then I said, “Why don’t we raise these issues together, why don’t we tackle it.” They were afraid to raise it, because there wasn’t any safe platform or safe environment or framework that will help us to have a heart-to-heart talk without being angry or condemning. That became a burden to me as well. And I was just started to ask, “Okay, how can we build true unity, how can our relationship be deeper than just doing some kind of activity? If you know what I mean?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. Go ahead, please.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So then, I remember, there was a church, not in our area. But I just keep on going around to see how other churches together, do, how they work on the unity. There was one church together that I visited. And I discovered that church together in a local barrow have been together for a long time, but they are very diverse leadership team. But the issue among them was really problematic, there was issues and they were not willing to address it out. So I had a conversation with the leader of that particular church together. And he told me that he couldn’t allow this issues to be raised because he said, It would be volatile, it will destroy the fellowship because there isn’t any framework where we can have that conversation. And that really, enhanced the burden and the prayer, I just keep on praying and asking God, “If we fail to build a true unity in you, then what hope do we have to encourage harmony in the wider community?” So that’s one my heart of gratitude to Britain. And then this, problem, I saw, how gratitude could be a framework, where we can have a constructive conversation.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. So tell us about the Gratitude Initiative that seeks to provide this framework, tell us about what it is?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So gratitude, the whole aspect of the gratitude, the principle, the philosophy of gratitude itself, it’s a very powerful principle. Because if I come to you, and start my conversation, with expressing my gratitude to you. Not just flattering, not just lip service, but really with content, what our relationship mean to me. Then I can really raise any other issue, and you wouldn’t be defensive, you would be able to listen to me, because you can see that I’m raising these issues, not to condemn you, but actually to make our relationship better. So, gratitude could create that framework. Just to give you an example, let me tell you a story, the story might be very helpful.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yes.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So, in 2018, I was in Central London, in the evening. And I meet this to couple, they are very middle-class posh couple. You can see that they’re coming from dinner evening, and they were just standing waiting for pickup and I was waiting for my friend. So it was evening. And then there was two other people going passing by. They were talking very loudly, and in a very funny way. And then they made us laugh and the lady started to have a conversation with me. And then she said to me afterwards, “I’m ashamed of my country, Britain.” And she started to list the problems. She said, “Oh, look at the immigration law, look at the racism, look at the hate crime, look at that Brexit.” At that time, we were in the process of going out of Europe. So there was this really very divisive conversation going on in the country. So she started to list the problems. And then obviously, as an African, as a black man, she was expecting me to add some more on the problems.And then I said to her, “I’m sorry, Madame, I don’t agree with you.” And then she said, “What do you mean, you don’t agree with me?” I said, ” Because, Britain is not just that, there are qualities in this country that we sometimes take it as granted.” Because I’ve been reflecting quite a lot, I just listed the qualities that I have witnessed in Britain.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And she just couldn’t believe that this African man actually contradicts her of her opinion of her country. And saying about Britain like this, then she said, “I’m sorry to ask you, but where are you from, how can you see this?” I said I came from Ethiopia with this, what I told you. This amount of money, I didn’t have anybody. And I was given this and this and this, and I am what I am today, by the grace of God, and by the generosity of the British people. And then she started crying. And then she said to me, “No, we are the one who are grateful. Where would Britain be without the migrant community? Look at our hospitals, look at this, look at.” And then I say “No, we are the one who are grateful.” She said, “No, we are the one.” The atmosphere that was created was so beautiful. None of us wanted to go.

Heidi Wilcox:
That is beautiful.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
It was just amazing. And if I had any negative feeling, a negative experiences in Britain, I would have shared with her, she would have listened to me without any defensiveness. And that would have brought healing to my pain and reconciliation would have happened. So how gratitude is disarming, and how it actually opens us up and helps us to be able to listen. It create a psychological space in our mind, which is not suffocated by trying to defend ourselves. Or trying to justify or something like that. That psychological space where there’s no condemnation, or you’re not being the center of some anger or anything. I really witnessed the power of gratitude in changing our conversations and changing the way we look at each other. I know that her perception of the migrant community, it has changed totally for forever, I think from that conversation. Gratitude could be a framework where we can have a difficult conversation and raise negative difficult issues and be able to move forward. If you know what I mean?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely. Because this was an encounter that you had which is beautiful. How does the Gratitude Initiative, encourage and promote harmony and a gratitude culture? And I believe one of the words that I read in the description about it was, I wanted to change the social imagination. So, what do you mean when you say, the social imagination and how do you do that?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Our imagination is informed by, obviously ideas, experiences, our imagination of the other. So our imagination of the others come about by our experiences, and by the ideas that we heard about that person, that individual or community or each other through time. So gratitude is the ability to perceive and also the ability to recognize the good. So it’s a decision or a choice that we encourage individuals to make, to start with the positive, to try to see the positive, try to see the good before they jump on the wrongs or the negatives. So what Gratitude Initiative have been doing, for example, to catalyze this change of imagination in a locality. For example, what we did in one borrow, I don’t know what you say community in America. One barrow in one area. So we went there, and we said, look, there are public sector workers and charities work, that benefiting and helping the community, that particular barrow.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And whenever we have a complaint about our services, we have a platform to complain, whenever we want to challenge we have a platform to challenge. But where is the platform for us to appreciate and celebrate and express our gratitude for the services that we have received for years. So we went there and invited the public sector workers like cleaners, teachers, nurses, doctors, police, fire brigade, all sorts of public sector representatives, and also charities who are really a life lifeline for our community. So, we organized a very big dinner for them, and we invited the local mayor and significant leaders to come. And then we say to them, Look, “We are here to say thank you and to express our gratitude as community leaders.” And we walked around, invited church leaders, committee leaders and we said “Look, we are organized this dinner, to express gratitude. So we will be wearing a bow tie.” And some of the pictures that you have seeing there is actually from that event. So we were serving them drinks and dinner and expressing our gratitude there. We honored them, we really express our heartfelt gratitude for the services that we have received for years.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So for them, that was absolutely empowering. Some of them were really emotional, because the only thing they have been hearing from the community for a very long time is negative. They’re remembered when things are wrong, when the garbage is not collected. So for leaders to stand in front of them, and to say thank you, was really a great joy to receive that gratitude. And also the schools were involved, so children were asked to write a gratitude card for the public sector workers and also the charities. We were teaching children also to think gratefully to appreciate what their communities are doing. And we put the cards on the table for them to look at. And also we gave them on different table. On each tables, we put two, three organizations and asked the people who are sitting on the table to write gratitude to those particular organizations. So to think about, “Okay, what are we grateful about this community, what is this organization doing?” And oh, my goodness, I didn’t know that they are doing this.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And discovering and looking at that particular organization in a positive way. Created actually, for them to think, Oh, well, we can actually collaborate on this and they are doing. So they were not only experiencing the joy of receiving gratitude, but also the joy of giving gratitude. So afterwards, few organizations were asking, whether we can give them training to promote a gratitude culture in their organization. So into a workshop for young people, for children, as well. So that’s we are heading to do, but also gratitude. Shall I go?

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yes, please go on. This is lovely.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So the other thing is to have a national celebration. We meant to have at St. Paul’s Cathedral gratitude celebration in 2018. And then also in 2020, actually last September, Corona, came and did work out. Now we are launching the initiative for the first time from the House of Lords on the 28th of November, this year. So we wanted-

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow, what is it that you’re launching this year?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
The initiative?

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m sorry, what is?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
The Gratitude Initiative. The charity the Gratitude-

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, You’re launching it formally?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Yeah, exactly. Formally and Nationally.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, that’s so exciting. That’s the bad on me with my research. But I thought it was already launched and out there, because I saw your beautiful website and all the things. That’s very exciting.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Yeah. It’s actually coming up on the 28th of November. And we have lines of very prominent leaders and academicians contributing on the day talking about gratitude.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow. That’s wonderful.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So one of the ways as I said, is working with the community as we did. And also to make gratitude our website information center, where people would come and find anything to do with gratitude. Any information, any books, if there is any training set they need. We want to provide that, we want to be the information hub of gratitude. And also we are planning to have the last Sunday of May as a gratitude Sunday. So we are working with churches to make that Sunday and gratitude Sunday and really express their gratitude to God and also to identify people in their community, in the church who have done amazing work in the community or contributed something to community and recognize them and celebrate them. And really in that way, encouraged gratitude culture in Britain.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And we are also working on the curriculum for schools for primary schools and secondary schools,. To propose for Church of England schools as well as for the government schools to adopt that gratitude. So, you have a Thanksgiving Day in America, but we don’t have thanksgiving day in Britain. So our aspiration is to have gratitude day and a gratitude national day, eventually Britain.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s lovely. What curriculum are you hoping to create for children in school?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
I’m working with psychologists, who have done research on how gratitude. How gratitude enhance our well-being in terms of mental health, in terms of emotional well-being, in terms how gratitude helps our relationship, and how it actually helps. There have been quite a lot of research done in America. So I’m working with one professor in the University of California, who have done a curriculum for secondary school. I don’t know how you call it Upper School? We say secondary school.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. Yeah.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So it is to teach children the benefits of the psychological, physical, relational benefits of gratitude. With all sorts of play, all sort of story, all sort of activities, and creatively by helping them engage, and then appreciate, reflect back and say, “Okay, why do you appreciate, how do you do this?” Because of the help of this person, that person. So what do you feel about it? And now I’m grateful. That kind of really helping them to realize. So it’s an early stage at the moment. But I have some curriculums, which has been developed by psychologists, but we want to have theologically input into it as well, spiritually input into it as well. That is kind of curriculum that we are planning to provide.

Heidi Wilcox:
Definitely. And I love the whole goal of the Gratitude Initiative. To promote gratitude across the culture and to provide training for. I never thought about being trained in gratitude, but just from my own experience, it’s not something that I gravitate to naturally. So I love it, that there’s a training opportunity out there. Why do we have to be trained to be thankful for things?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So, our tendency, or as a human being, the default position for us is to focus on the negative. In fact, a while ago, there was a study done by neurologists, and who said that, at best, it is only 30% of our thoughts on the day, our thoughts are positive, 70% are negative. So you can imagine what this means to our well-being individually as well as socially. So it takes intentional decision to observe the positive around us. For me gratitude is the ability to perceive the wonders of nature, the wonders of humanity, the wonders of life, the wonders of God’s goodness around us. It’s the ability to see the extra ordinariness of the ordinary day’s events in Counties and occasions. We don’t need to wait to win a lottery or to go to Himalayas to discover the extraordinary ordinariness of our day. We just need to be grateful, observant, and we will discover that all along. Ordinary days are full of extra ordinary occurrences.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So it’s the most powerful way of living. It’s the recognition of the giftedness of life. As I think its, Paul would say that for the church of current he said, “What do you have that you didn’t receive?” It said rhetorical question. He said, “What do you have? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you didn’t.” So, all is a gift to us. And our response should be gratitude not boasting or consider ourselves superior than others. So, this gratitude is really an acknowledgement of the giftedness of life. And also, it’s endorsing a life of sabbath, it’s a start in our days, hours, and starting our conversation with acknowledgement of the good.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Because, as you know, in the Bible, as human beings, we started our existence with sabbath. Joining God in His sabbath, and from a place of rest, a place of fulfillment, and a place of in agreement with God for the primacy of goodness. After creation, in Genesis, it says that, God saw that it was good after creating and every day He looks back what he has done and say, This is good. So we started our first day, really, by agreeing with God over the primacy of goodness. So even after the fall, redemption reveals to us that good still has its primacy. Therefore, we should start by acknowledging the good, expressing our gratitude for the good. So being thankful for the good. We have six days to complain but starting our week, with one day of gratefulness or our day with one hour of gratitude. We have 23 hours left to complain.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And one hour is one minutes of gratitude and 59 minutes of complaint if we went to. And one second in a minute to start with gratitude. So this sabbatical approach to life. This acknowledging to the good is really a profound life changing, transformation and perspective, in my opinion.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely. On your website, the story that I found very interesting about the boll weevil that came to U.S in the early 1900s, and then devoured a good portion of the cotton crop. And because of that, the farmers started planting peanuts. And then they were very grateful for the boll weevil, because it helped them be even more successful than they had been. But I’m thinking about you and your story, as it relates to the story of the boll weevil. Because you had a lot of reasons to be ungrateful and are not, or not see the good because coming from Ethiopia to Great Britain. It wasn’t an easy transition, it probably wasn’t how you had pictured your life going at that moment. How did you start practicing gratitude?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
That’s really a very interesting way of relating it to my own life. Sometimes we only see the good, that has been done, or given to us, that would help us in life. But actually, the bad things that happened to us could actually be the stepping stone for us to go to our destiny or to a better life. The Bible obviously says that “All things work together for good, to transform our life to the likeness of Christ and also really, to help us be where God wants us to be.” So, to be in Britain, and the fear, the uncertainty, that I was feeling on the way here, to come here and to be cared for and to be treated as a human being. I haven’t contributed anything, my family haven’t contributed anything towards Britain and Ethiopia have never contributed anything to it. This is a sheer generosity. This is how I see it. That’s really invoked an attitude of gratitude in me.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
But, in a basic level as Christian, what also created a gratitude disposition in me is, the very fact that Christ loved me. And came to me while I was his enemy he embraced me not after I changed, not after I became what he wanted me to be. But while I was his enemy, while I was unacceptable condition he embraced me. His embrace, reveal my sin to myself and also motivated me to fall into line. And that created that triggered that immense gratitude as a response, became a disposition. Its not just sporadic occurrence. But something a gratitude state in me to life, to God and to consider my life as a gratitude to God. Living my life as expression of gratitude to God. And that contributed to the way I started to practice gratitude as well.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Are there specific things that you do to practice gratitude to train your heart and your mind?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Okay. So, yeah. Every day in the morning when I pray. My first list is gratitude counting, and really specific things that I appreciate God about. So, initially I used to write them down, it really tought me to reflect on. It could be five things, it could be three things, it could be one thing that I was really deeply grateful about. And that would take my time really expressing my gratitude, thank God about. But gradually, I don’t even know actually wait for morning time, or a particular time. The list started to grow and it became a lifestyle to me now after all this years. But writing and also talking about. What we do in our family is that we talk about, what were grateful about. We ask my children, my wife and then we discuss, we talk about it, and then we thank God about the good things that we have experienced. So, as a family, talking about the good things that happen, and also personally writing initially, and also uttering it out to God. Thanking him about those things as well.

Heidi Wilcox:
Was it easy for you to develop this lifestyle of gratitude? Because, for me, I do a little bit, kind of make a list sometimes. But I can do better, because I definitely can focus on the negative. And so I want to see the finish line inside. How long does it take? And I’m saying that kind of tongue in cheek so you can’t see my face, you can’t see that I’m smiling. But I do like how long do I have to do this before? It just comes naturally to me to be more positive.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
When you’re grateful, you’re actually acknowledging your limitation. And you need for others. Sometimes in the Western culture, I believe is a very general statement. But there’s individualistic approach to life that we think we are where we are, somehow by our own endeavor. But when you think about life, really from birth to death. Our life is the contribution of thousands and thousands of people. And when you really start to see that, then you see the need for others. I mean like in everything you need the other person. The kind of really to become to see. It starts from seeing it intentionally to be an observant of our surroundings and the things around us. So it takes time, it takes time it because as I said, our 70% of our thoughts have been negative. That’s being humans. So its occasional exercise, without being hard on ourselves would be helpful.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, yes. Did you say not being hard on ourselves?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
That’s right?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. For not getting it quite right to begin with.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
That’s right. So if you become hard on ourselves, and then start to say, “Oh, no grateful,” then that actually have a negative effect. And to admit that, it takes the grace of God, it takes God to help us really to cultivate the heart of gratitude. And its actually a response to his command as well.

Heidi Wilcox:
Definitely, because we have to have grace for ourselves, and grace for others that comes from God. Yes, I love that. So as we’ve talked about before, we’re recording in November, a couple of Weeks before Thanksgiving week in the U.S. But for many in the U.S and around the world, it’s not just limited to the US. Because of COVID, thanksgiving gatherings and celebrations, and as we approach Christmas. And different holiday get togethers, it all is going to look different this year. So what are some ways that we can practice gratitude, even in the midst of this difficult time that we’re in right?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
In Britain, during the lockdown initially as well as now. Sometimes it’s not just respond to the good things that people have done for us. It’s actually witnessing what one person is doing to the other, that creates gratitude in us, really observing. If you see someone or a community doing something for other person thereby expressing our gratitude to that community or to that person. People might not necessarily contributed to us, but they have done it to other people. So starting acknowledging that and it means a great deal really, for that individual, or for that community to get an acknowledgment of that thank you card and appreciate what you have done for this person, we’re really grateful of your kindness would be a good thing.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
And also to make a phone call, just one phone call, it could be somebody that we haven’t talked to for a long time, it could be someone that means a lot to us like who have contributed, it could be in our educational venture or any family related relatives that we haven’t talked to. It’s a hard time now just calling say to see how it’s going. You are calling in response to appreciating what that person mean to you. So, it’s one way of expressing our gratitude as well, acknowledging that person is contribution and as I said, writing cards. And also expressing our kindness by doing something to other people as well. It could be as I said this time is calling is kindness but it could also be material thing that we can do to others. And really pray and reflect that one day of thanksgiving that we give to be a lifestyle to really be statement trigger or ignite a lifestyle of gratitude and thanksgiving.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, because it’s not just one day. It’s something that at least I hope in my life to live out the entire year. And as we’re talking I’m thinking about just seeing a new the people that I’m especially grateful for. Since, we’ve talked I would like to let them know how much I appreciate them. So I appreciate that challenge and that encouragement from you.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Oh, thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, thank you. As we wrap up our interview, we’ve talked about a lot of things. We have one question that we ask everybody before we end, but before I ask you that one, is there anything else that you would like to talk about, that I didn’t know to ask you about?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So, to ground it biblically just wanted to say. Gratitude helps us to, not just only when things are good. But also when things are not good, especially in relationship, in our community, in our church. Jesus message to the seven churches, some of them, were really in a very difficult situation. And Jesus didn’t start by condemning them, by highlighting the wrongs in them. But he actually started by acknowledging the good, acknowledging, appreciating and expressing his gratitude for what they have done for his name sake and how they stand for his name sake.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
So really, because he was in the business of restoration, not in the business of condemnation. So even in conflict, even in a very difficult situation finding something to focus on, to appreciate before we tackle the issue. In a family situation, in a marriage situation, in all sorts of situation. That is a very helpful place, because the moment you move to that, emotionally, you will be in a positive position. And when you raise the issue, the negative emotion won’t be dominating you, when you express your concerns or your challenge.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely. I keep saying and then U.S, but that’s the context that I know. We’ve just come through this political season with lots of… And I know you mentioned Brexit in Great Britain. And so there’s lots of people on opposite sides. And so as you’re saying, it’s very important to find the good and the other, to find a way to have a good conversation, even if you walk away still, on opposite sides, but not as angry.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
That’s absolutely true.

Heidi Wilcox:
So, that’s a good word Dr. Bishaw.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Okay. So now for the last question, because the show is called the Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast. What is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Fellowshipping! Meeting people, meeting new people, and just to hear their story. And that has been inspirational for me, and really helping me to discover God in a new way really. Just meeting new people, and discovering what God is doing in their life and how God brought them where they are, and really hearing their story. It has been transformational.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I’m sure. Dr. Bishaw, I really appreciate your time today and the words that you had to share, I found them challenging, especially to me. So I really appreciate it.

Dr. Girma Bishaw:
Oh, It’s a pleasure. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I’m honored.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, thank you. You’re very kind.

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Bishaw, just so grateful for his kindness, and for his time in talking to us about gratitude. As we talked, I was reminded, challenged and encouraged to think about the people in my own life, that I am especially grateful for, but sometimes take for granted. And so I hope as you listen, you had a similar moment. And maybe we can all take a moment to reflect on that and to let these individuals or organizations know how they have impacted our lives. So thank you so much for listening to the conversation. I’m especially grateful for you our listeners because we couldn’t do it without you. So as always, you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @asburyseminary. Until next time, have a great day and go do something that helps you thrive.