Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis: Wholeness of Body, Mind and Spirit

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Overview

Today on the podcast, I had the privilege of talking to Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis, Mississippi River District Superintendent. Dr. Davis served as a nurse for 24 years and later as a nursing instructor. For almost half of her nursing career, she also served as a bi-vocational pastor. She is a lifelong learner and in 2005, she received her Doctor of Ministry degree with her dissertation focusing on “The Black Church and Public Health.”

We talk about her sense of calling from the time she was a child, her work as a nurse and pastor and the relationship between faith, health and wholeness of the body, mind and spirit.

Let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis, Mississippi River District Superintendent

Cynthia Dianne Davis was appointed District Superintendent of the McKendree District of the Memphis Conference of The United Methodist Church in June 2011. Prior to this appointment, she served for six years as Senior Pastor of Friendship United Methodist Church, Millington, TN. She practiced nursing in various capacities for twenty-four years. Before entering full time ministry, she served as Manager of Admissions and Retention at Baptist College of Health Sciences, Memphis, TN. Concurrent with her twenty-four years as a practicing registered nurse; she served as an African Methodist Episcopal (AME) pastor for one year, and six years as an Associate Pastor of White’s Chapel AME Church. She also served four years as an Associate Pastor in the founding of North Star Community Church and two additional years as a volunteer Associate Pastor for Asbury United Methodist Church. She has been an ordained Elder of the AME Church since 1997 and her orders were transferred and received as a member in full connection of the Memphis Conference of the United Methodist Church in June 2010.

Dr. Davis began her college education at Tuskegee Institute and received her Bachelor of Science degree in Nursing from the University of Mississippi Medical Center, Jackson, MS. She completed thirty hours toward a Masters degree in Public Administration at Central Michigan University. A Masters degree in Counseling from the University of Memphis continued her educational trek with additional academic work at Memphis Theological Seminary and the West Tennessee Board of Examiners of the AME Church. In December 2005, Dr. Davis received her Masters of Divinity Equivalency and a Doctor of Ministry degree along with her husband, Chaplain (COL) Elvernice “Sonny” Davis, USA Retired, from United Theological Seminary. Her focus group was “The Black Church and Public Health.” Her dissertation is entitled, “Promoting Healthy Dietary Lifestyles to Prevent Obesity in African American Adolescents.” In May 2007 she completed an additional 16 hours at Memphis Theological Seminary fulfilling final requirements for transferring into full connection as an Elder in the UMC. She and her husband Sonny have four children and two grandsons, Jalen and Blake.

With certification as a trauma and cardiovascular nurse, her distinguished nursing career includes Counselor/Academic Advisor; Facilitator for the Freshmen Experience; Program Chair, Certified Nursing Assistants, Baptist College of Health Sciences; Nursing Faculty, Baptist Memorial Hospital School of Nursing; Nurse Manager, Burn ICU and step-down and Trauma Orthopedics, Detroit Receiving Hospital; Charge Nurse and Nurse Manager CVICU, Baptist Memorial Hospital; Charge Nurse and Staff Nurse ICU, Hinds General Hospital. Her continuous educational training includes workshops and training events too numerous to list. Her awards include: 1992 and 1993 Nursing Excellence Award; 1997 Excellence in Nursing Award; Kappa Delta Pi International Honor Society; Sigma Theta Tau International Honor Society. She models servant leadership by serving or has served on many community councils, boards and agencies including: Methodist LeBonheur Healthcare Foundation and Board of Directors, American Counseling Association; Parish Nursing Ministry; Shelby County Domestic Violence Council; Victims to Victory; The Emmaus Walk; Kairos Inside and Outside for West TN; St. Jude Sickle Cell Anemia Community Advisory Board and Churches Uniting in Christ. She has served as a regional, state and national speaker for HOSA (Health Occupations Students of America). She has spoken throughout the SEJ on the relationship of faith and health. She is a highly sought after workshop and conference presenter. She presently serves as a member of the Board of Trustees for Hannah’s Hope, Conference Board of Pensions, Conference Personnel and Finance Committee, Wesley Senior Ministries, Conference New Church Development, Wesley Foundation, Missional Task Force and the United Methodist Neighborhood Centers. She is a graduate of Leadership Memphis, Class of 2008. She served as the Chair of the Cabinet Consultation for the SEJ, 2015.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep needs. Today on the podcast, I had the privilege of talking to Dr. Cynthia Davis, Mississippi River District Superintendent. Dr. Davis served as a nurse for 24 years, and later as a nursing instructor. For almost half of her nursing career, she also served as a bi-vocational pastor. She is a lifelong learner. And in 2005, she received her Doctor of Ministry degree with her dissertation focusing on the Black church and Public Health. So, you guys, we talk about a lot of things in this conversation. We talk about her sense of calling from the time she was a child, her work as a nurse and pastor, and the relationship that she sees between faith, health, and wholeness of body, mind and spirit. Let’s listen.

Heidi Wilcox:
So, Dr. Davis, I am so glad to be here with you today. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to be with you on today.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, yeah, it’s a real pleasure. You spoke in Chapel a couple of weeks ago now. And I’m just glad that we get to spend this time together. As I was thinking about this before we got started, I noticed that you had a DMin degree. And so you are Dr. Davis. You spent 24 years as a registered nurse. And so, I mean, I guess I just found it interesting that your doctorate degree was in the field of theology rather than medicine. Do you find that interesting as well?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
It is interesting. Even as a child, I felt called to help people. And whenever people were sick, or in distress, or whatever, emotionally it was like I was intuitive. I could always tell people’s moods. So, I knew how to approach them, or the Holy Spirit would give me what to say. So, I started very early as a child and looking at the mind, the body, and the spirit. And when I was in the fourth grade, and I went to our church, there was a nun in the pulpit. The very first time I’d ever seen a woman in the pulpit.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I remember so clearly the Lord saying, “This is where you will be.” So, initially, I thought I was supposed to be a nun. So, I’ve gone from nursing and nurses at the time that I was capped you had on something that looked like a habit. So, with the apron, yes. And so, the DMin, I think, is where God was leading me to open some doors for me to be able to speak to be people about the connection between mind body and spirit.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, definitely. So you knew as early as the fourth grade that you were supposed to be in the field of medicine? Did you know nursing at that time? What did you think that was going to look like?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
When I was about five, I knew that I wanted to be a nurse because I felt called to help people get better. So when I was five, I knew that I wanted to be a nurse. But by the time I was in the fourth grade, seeing a nun and a habit, I was thinking I was supposed to be a nun, but it turned out to be a nurse. But I’d never thought about being a pastor in the pulpit. So, they all came together.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, tell me how your calling worked together because you spent 24 years as a nurse. You served in a wide variety of areas of nursing from trauma, the burn unit, ICU, really intense places. I mean, I don’t think there’s any area of nursing that you can phone in, but certainly in areas that you worked you had to bring your A game every day. And then for half of that time if I did my math right, you were also serving as a pastor. How did those two come together, and how did you do it all?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Wow. Well, I was an ICU nurse, and I worked full-time teaching. And then I worked part-time in the trauma unit. And my brother was a pastor and I was the youth minister. So, I had an opportunity to work with children all the time. And I had an opportunity to do pastoral visits because he could not always make the visits. And so, I told the Lord, “If this is what you want me to do, this is just great. I’m just loving this.” I was okay to be second in the second chair, but then it was like the Lord call me to go on and preach and to pastor and to take care of his sheep. And on July 31st 1992, I know the exact day. I know where I was when the Lord said, “Go teach and preach my gospel.” And so, that’s what I’ve been doing since.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. When you talk about calling, and you talk about hearing from God, I think we all hear differently because we’re all different. He relates to all of us differently. How do you hear from God so that you knew this was what you were supposed to do?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I clearly heard very audibly, “Go teach and preach my gospel,” very audible. And I said, “Lord, if it be you then allow the Holy Spirit to come upon me.” So, literally, it was like I was standing in the middle of the ocean, and huge waves started washing over me, three times, one for the Father, one for the Son, one for the Holy Spirit, and I knew immediately. And after that, they’re just all kinds of spiritual, Holy Spirit kinds of things that happened that just confirmed that in so many different ways. And on August the 30th, I preached my very first sermon.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. So, how did it work with being a nurse, and preaching? Were you a pastor or? Because I’ve come to understand there’s a difference between preaching every once in a while and pastoring.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Well, I was preaching every once in a while. I had acknowledged my call, but had not gone through and completed the process to become a pastor. And so, I was still doing my critical care nursing. And literally, I could walk down the hall and the Holy Spirit would say, “Go in that room, and lay hands on that person.” And so, I would just walk in and touch somebody’s foot, and just talk to them. And they would say something that indicated that they needed prayer, or they needed someone to talk to. So, while I was a nurse, I definitely felt the power of the Spirit in my calling as a nurse. And I believe that I was called as a nurse, as well as called as a pastor. And I was also called as a college counselor. So everything was a very clear call from God.

Heidi Wilcox:
I like how you said, when you were a child, you knew you were called to help people because I was talking to somebody else recently about calling and he said, “My calling is X, Y, and Z. But it’s not tied to a specific career.” It sounds like you would agree with that.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Yes. God calls us every day. So every day your call to do something, whether it’s to write a letter, or send a text, or make a phone, you’re called to do something for someone else. And so, I was called as a child and knew that I was called. I knew that I had a relationship with the Lord. And I felt like I was his special favorite child. And that we just had this very special relationship. And so, I’ve always, like some people say, “Well, I know that I was saved on this day.” I feel like I’ve always known God. I’ve not ever had a period in my life where I didn’t know the Lord. So, those callings just kept coming.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, it sounds… I’m really amazed. You knew you were called so young. I know it’s like I’ve said this over and over, but just that you knew the voice of the Lord when you were so young. I mean, because sometimes there’s nothing wrong with this way either. But it takes us a while to learn to hear the voice of God. When you were… I’ll ask this question, I think we can move on from calling but how did you know it was God when you were a child?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
My grandfather was a pastor. My father missed his call as a pastor, but he’s a great Biblical theologian. So, I’ve always had a relationship. I’ve always just known. I’ve always felt the power of the Spirit when I didn’t know what the Holy Spirit was. I was surrounded and enveloped by the Spirit and knew it was the spirit and knew that I was in God’s presence. And so, when I heard the voice of God, I knew it was God. I wasn’t deceived thinking, “Oh, I’m hearing voices or that’s not God.” I knew very clearly very distinctly that it was God.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I think sometimes it may be easier as a child when we’re more innocent and just are like, “This is God.” Yeah. So then you went on to be a nurse, and you talked about, and you’ve done a lot of work in the area of the relationship between body, mind, and spirit. What do you see as that relationship?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
We are not three separate people in one. We’re one integrated being or body. And if something is wrong with one area, something is wrong with all the other areas. And sometimes when we have spiritual distress, or emotional distress, it may play out in our physical bodies. And there’s a book called The Body Keeps The Score. And it talks about things that happen to your body, how your body remembers, even if your mind does not remember because your body keeps the score. And so, you can’t be totally whole, totally healed, unless all of those parts are integrated and working in sync. Because if one part is off, it’s like a three legged stool. If something happens to one you’re going to topple over.

Heidi Wilcox:
What do you see as the relationship between healing our bodies and healing ourselves, because you’ve had experience being actively involved in doing both?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I think part of my experience has also been seeing so many people who are so wounded, and it relates to spiritual experiences, or emotional experiences, or something that someone said to them as a child, something that someone did to them. And then have those manifestations come out as an adult. How it manifests in their self esteem or their self worth, and how people will do things to harm themselves not intentionally thinking they’re harming themselves. But years later, they’ll realize, my body is the temple of the Lord and I did some things with my body that were harmful. And so, because they were broken spiritually, or mentally, or emotionally, then things happen with their body. Or the reverse is true, if something happened to the body that they were not able to get over or to get through, then it would manifest in emotional or spiritual ways.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, you can’t disconnect one from the other. If the body is healed, so you have a wound and the wound is healed. But if it’s a spiritual or an emotional wound, healing that part of the outside is fine, but if that inside is not healed there’ll be another manifestation. So whether it’s headaches, or back aches, or chest pain, or constipation. I mean, just all kinds of things happen to the body if the mind is not settled and at peace.

Heidi Wilcox:
I feel like… I could be wrong about this. But I feel like healing the body sometimes is easier maybe, than healing the spirit and the emotions. How can… All can be healed, obviously.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
How do we get to the root of healing in our spiritual life, in our emotional life, and I guess, in our bodies, too? But I feel like not to minimize the body. But I feel like if you have a cut on your hand you know what to do with that. For me, I struggle, knowing what to do with things on the inside and not even realizing.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
You’re exactly right. It’s easier to heal a wound. You can have a CAT scan, or an X-ray or some lab work. And you see what the issue is. And then there are treatment modalities that can fix that or solve that or heal that. But what happens in the spirit can be so deep. I think sometimes people are reluctant to talk with someone like a therapist or a counselor. And so, I’m always saying, “I know a great person you can have a conversation with.” And so, just changing the language so that people don’t feel like they are “sick” or mentally ill or stressed out or anything that you want to call it. A lot of times people don’t like to deal with things related to the mind or the spirit because they see it as a weakness, as a character flaw. Instead of saying, Elijah got depressed and he sat up under a burning tree and that people… Jesus was in Gethsemane and he was mournful and sorrowful and sad.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I think sometimes we forget that we are human, and it’s okay to have those emotions. And that sometimes it’s really okay to have a conversation with somebody about how you’re feeling. And it’s good to have conversations with friends. But people who are specifically trained, they’ve gone to school, they’ve done internships, they have experience in working with the mind, and the Spirit. I think they will have a better way to ask questions of you that you haven’t thought about, deep probing questions. And sometimes talk therapy is just so helpful because you don’t know what’s on the inside until someone asked the right question to get you to thinking about, “Oh, I’d never thought of it that way.” Or, “Oh, I forgot about that experience.” Or, “Oh, you reminded me that when I was a child, this happened to me. And I’m just now remembering it.” So having someone to talk with who can get help you get to the root of what has caused your distress or disease, dis and ease, so that you’re not easy in your own skin.

Heidi Wilcox:
How do you know when it might be… When something is amiss in your body and in your spirit in your mind? Because you said sometimes we get to adulthood and suddenly we realize we’re not fine. How do we know?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Hopefully, you, or anyone has a good friend that can see and say, “You don’t seem to be yourself.” Or you seem to be angry a lot, or you seem to be sad, or that joy that you used to have, or I’m just seeing something different in you. So, sometimes having friends or colleagues to notice might be an indication that something’s not right. If your eating habits change, your sleeping habits change, if you notice that your joy is gone, those are just little hints to you that maybe something is not right. And then when someone verifies it or asks you a question, “Are you okay?” When you find a lot of people saying, “Are you okay?” Then maybe people are seeing something that you can’t see. And so, I thank God for friends. I thank God for covenant groups. I thank God for relationships. So whether people are in small groups, or Sunday school groups, or Bible study groups, or girlfriend groups, or whatever kind of groups, even sports, somebody will notice that something is awry if something is going on with you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, my husband is a good sounding board for me in a good way because he’s like, “You don’t seem like you’re the best version of you. And you’ve seemed that way for a while now.” So, maybe we need to explore that a little bit.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Yes, yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
One of the things you mentioned in your chapel message is the power of naming things. And I think the direction we’re going is heading right into that. What have you seen in both your career as a nurse and as a pastor, and you also have a degree in counseling, too, I believe. What have you seen to be the power of naming things?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
When something is vague, and it’s out there, it’s nebulous, and it doesn’t have a name, you can’t identify it. For example, if you have a diagnosis from a doctor, there is a specific treatment protocol for that disease. If you have a mental health disorder, there is a specific medication and therapy that would go with that. So, you have to name what it is in order for it to be treated. It’s good to have a name of what we believe in and what we have faith in, so that when something happens you don’t say, “Oh, woe is me.” You have faith and so you call on the one in whom you have faith in. And when you have friends and family you will say, “I need you to pray for me.”

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
And so, you want them to pray in the name of Jesus because you believe there is healing in the name. And it’s like I said in the chapel story with Peter and John. They didn’t have silver and gold but they to the man who was laying down, in the name of Jesus, get up. And he got up leaping and jumping for joy. And so, when we name Jesus as the source of our healing, and I think sometimes people take it to the extreme and say, “Well, I’m just going to pray about it, and I’m not going to do anything.” So, I want people to very clearly hear me say, Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, there are medicines, and there are treatments, and there are therapies that were created for our good. And so you pray and go to the doctor. If you have high blood pressure, you do not take your medicine because you said, “Well, I’m just going to trust Jesus.” You don’t get a diagnosis of cancer and say, “Well, I’m just going to trust Jesus.” Trust Jesus, but go to the doctor. Trust Jesus, but take your medication.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right. They work in conjunction with each other.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Yes, they do.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes, and as we think about our spiritual healing for a minute, one of the things I want to talk about is naming the lies, naming the hurts that maybe we’ve experienced from our childhood, or past experiences with church or people in the church. How do we learn to name those lies or maybe setbacks, I guess, I’ll call them, too, that keep us from fully embracing or being embraced by God’s love?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Sometimes people are told things and I don’t think people mean to always do it in a hurtful way that’s going to break someone’s spirit, but it does. So they may compare them to someone else. Your friend Susie is so smart. Maybe one day you’ll be like Susie. Or Susie is so pretty, maybe if you could do your hair like this, you could be like Susie. Or oh, Susie is so slender, and if you could just go on a diet and lose about 10 pounds you would be as slim as… So people say things. And they probably mean well. They want to be helpful. But what they don’t realize is that that one statement to a child is so influential that they take, I’m not good enough with them for the rest of their lives. They’re always striving to be good enough, or I will never be good enough so there’s no point in me trying because from a child everyone was trying to get me to be who I was not.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I know that I’m who God created me to be. But apparently, no one thinks that’s good enough. God must have made a mistake with me. I think people fail to realize that for children, they hold on to every word that you say, and their self esteem is so tied into just simple compliments, or on compliments. And they take that in, they make that a part of who they are for the rest of their lives. I’ve known people in their 40s and 50s and 60s, who are still living out something that someone told them when they were 10. Because they didn’t feel like they were good enough, and they never got the help that they needed. And so, they’ve gone on with a lie that you’re not good enough, you’re not worthy enough. And that maybe God loves you as you are, but you can be so much better than you are kind of thing.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I think a lot of people, myself included struggle with we have to work hard to be good enough, to earn approval, too. And there is good in that. There is some good in that. But there’s also the tie into, “Well, I messed up in whatever area, so therefore I am a terrible person and then the cycle starts.” So, we have to move past that. What is the relationship between, I mean, if we realize we have a problem in our mind, body, or spirit, what do we then do? Do we see a pastor, a counselor, and a medical doctor? What would you recommend?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
If you have a physical ailment, I would always say go to a medical doctor. If your medical doctor recommends a counselor or a therapist, then I would go to that person. If you go to your pastor, and pastors refer when it is outside of their realm of expertise. So you go to a pastor and you talk about deep seated, deep rooted issues that may just be totally out of their realm. And so, they should have resources that they refer people to as well.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I so regret that so many people hurt in so many ways based on things that people have said and done to them, and they live the rest of their lives as broken people. And I know that we all walk with a lamp. I know that we all have something that we deal with or struggle with. But sometimes we just have enough. And then we get an extra load, or an extra dose of something that can become overwhelming. And my prayer is that people would recognize that all is not well, and to seek resources. So most people trust their clergy person. So I would say always start with your clergy person. And they might even say, “Well, have you gone to your physician?” Maybe it could be lab work that’s out of whack or something like that. So at least start with a physician and see if there is a medical problem that’s wrong.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely. Have you noticed a difference in people? I mean, I’m trying to think of how to word this question to you, but coming from your background as a nurse, and now as a pastor, what have you seen, how have you seen the pandemic effect those in your congregation? And you’re a district superintendent, so there’s a lot of churches that you’re over. How has this affected people in their brokenness now.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
There is not a place that you can go in this country where the pandemic has not affected someone. So if it wasn’t you, or someone in your household, you know someone whose life has been affected as a result of the pandemic. You know someone who’s lost their job, you know of a restaurant that’s closed. You know of someone who was in the hospital, someone who died. You know of a friend, or a neighbor, or somebody in the next community, or someone in another church. We all know someone, and I think it’s caused a lot of sadness and depression and stress and anxiety. And I think people have done the best they could. But I think we still need more and I think people are asking for more.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I think there’s more calls for people to have someone that they can talk to, especially our children. We’ve seen so many of our children who have just struggled and not been able to handle school. So many children who are depressed, but they don’t know it’s called depression. Parents who don’t know anything about depression, don’t know that it’s depression. They just know that their children are different. And they know that they’re different. They know that they’re struggling with their own anger. Why am I so angry? They know that they’re struggling with their anxiety. They’re just anxious about everything.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, I’ve seen it go from people being very, very, very concerned thinking that they might die, to people saying, “It’s nothing but the flu. You’ll be fine. People don’t need to do all of that.” So, from one extreme to the other. And then, of course, all of those in the middle. So it has negatively affected people because people have fallen out in their relationships. So the people who don’t want to wear a mask, and the people who say, “I’ve got to wear a mask because I have a life threatening illness.” And so, then they say to the person who doesn’t want to wear a mask, “You must not love me as love thy neighbor as thyself because you won’t wear a mask so that I can come to church, too.” So people have fallen out even in churches. Pastors and membership have fallen out because the pastor may say to do one thing, the congregation may say to do something else. And so, pastors and it’s just been hard on everybody.

Heidi Wilcox:
It really has and as we’re starting to maybe see light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccine and people getting vaccinated, whatever people’s thoughts are about vaccine, anti-vaccine, but people are getting vaccinated. Things are starting to open up again. But we still have… So, maybe as the disease goes away, we still have the relationship issues to deal with. I think some relationship issues that at least for me, personally, I’ve never had to deal with before in my life. How do we get on the other side of those issues? How do we find healing when, as you were saying, there is a wide chasm.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, I think this also reflects on how we have been politically over this past several years. You have people on both ends of the extremes, and then you have people in the middle. And so, family members have fallen out over who they were going to vote for or what they believe about the election. And so, the vaccine is just one other thing to add to all of that. What I would say is love your neighbor. The only thing we can do is love. I can love you and disagree with you. And I think that has been the issue for so many people. It’s like, either you agree with me and love me, or you don’t agree with me and you don’t love me.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, somehow people have equated if you disagree with what I believe, then you must not love me, like me, want to be in relationship with me. And that’s not the case at all. You should be able to love one another even if you are diametrically opposed in your understanding theologically or politically. But somehow people have equated my getting along or being in relationship with you is related to whether or not you agree with me or not. And we’ve missed the boat on that.

Heidi Wilcox:
For sure, how do we disagree and love at the same time?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
If people have not ever had that experience, I think it would be difficult, but I think as Christians, we’ve got to look at the Word of God. I mean, it’s just so clear. People will know that you are my disciples by your love. And so, if you wanted to be counted Christian after Christ, then people need to know you by your love, not about your disagreement, about your anger, about your vitriol. And to say, Well, “I’m a Christian, and I love Jesus. But I’m not going to wear a mask, and I don’t care if you don’t come to church.”

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
That’s not love. It’s like, if you go to a Walmart, if you go to a Kroger, if you go to a doctor’s office, mask required to enter. These are people that you don’t even know. So the people that you do know, and that you say you love, it would just make to me more sense that you would wear a mask for one hour for the people that you are in relationship with. But that’s my opinion. And there are people who will not agree with that. All I’m saying is as a nurse, and with my degree, focus being in public health. I’m going from the science side, but I’m also going from the love side and God is love is that I love you enough that I’m going to make a sacrifice.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. So, I’m glad you brought up your degree in public health because I wanted to talk about your dissertation a little bit, too. So you did your… I am fascinated by your dissertation. The title of it is Promoting Healthy Dietary Lifestyles To Prevent Obesity In African-American Adolescents. Why did you choose to study this particular topic?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, this is going to be off what we’re talking about. There is something called Han, it is a Korean concept of generational trauma. And so, I believe that there is generational trauma in the African-American community from being viciously taken from Africa to the Middle Passage and the way the African nations of people were stuffed in the bottom of ships and all the horrible things that happened to them. And then when they got to this country, all the horrible things that happened. So, I believe that because of generational trauma that is passed on that people do things in order to survive the stress and the trauma of racism, and that what people might not understand is that racism is kind of like a fog. So, you’re in it, it’s around you all the time. And unless you are the person that have racist acts, or comments, or conversations about you, you’re not aware that it is so insidious. So, out of that stress of something that is just pervasive in the air that you breathe, you’re stressed all the time because it is your environment.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
And so, Dr. Park from United Theological Seminary, taught Han, it made sense to me the generational trauma. So even in families where there has been generational abuse, or other kinds of things, it follows people even if they don’t talk about it. The pain and the trauma is inside of the body because the body keeps the score. And so, my thesis was that the reason there were so much obesity in the African-American community was because we were holding in, taking in the stress of the environment of just trying to live and to survive, and to provide for and to have a voice, and to have a place, and that we needed to recognize that children were experiencing that.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, one of the ways with the dissertation was to talk about healthy eating, and not eating when you’re hungry. And so, at their level, to just talk about what it looked like to prepare healthy meals and not eating fast food and all of that. Not so much getting into the psychological and the spiritual part because they were children, but also looking at how what they learned influence their parents. So we looked at what they learned in the Bible studies that I did for them impacted their parents’ ability and willingness to change their eating habits, so that the family then began to eat healthy foods, cut back or eliminate fast food so that they could live and not die, and be able to declare the glory of the Lord.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s fascinating. So, tell me a little bit more how you set up this study with the Bible studies, how did that relate to eating?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, as a nurse, I actually brought mannequins to class and use scripture, and just talked about diseases of the body related to affluenza, overeating, and obesity, and talked about healthy portions and how to prepare healthy meals. And just even the saturated fats in the fast foods and things like that, able to show blood vessels with plaque. And what it looks like to have a heart attack by seeing all the plaque in the coronary arteries, or the plaque in the vessels in the neck going to the brain that a person would have a stroke. So they were actually able to see, and I would draw pictures on the board and show the plaque in the vessel. I’d bring mannequins and talk about amputations from diabetes.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So all kinds of health related things that they would have been maybe accustomed to seeing in the church. People having hypertension, people always talking about their blood pressure and what they couldn’t eat, people talking about their sugar, meaning their diabetes, and people having amputations. And explaining the relationship that all of those things had in common. And then to talk about in Genesis, what God created for us to eat and that it was good for us.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s so cool. Can you tell me a story about how you saw a child or a family kind of… Because it does go along with what we’ve been talking about with all the healing, with everything, learn to incorporate that healing into their own lives?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, part of the post test was to ask one of the questions, tell me how your eating habits changed at home. Tell me what kinds of meals you’ve had over the past week, six weeks after versus six weeks before after going home every week and talking about what you’ve learned because there were things for them to take home, to share with their parents about what they were learning and about again healthy eating. So not even a diet but just healthy eating and exercise and stress reduction. How could they even as children not stress eat? Because we start as children doing things and we continue to do those things into adulthood. But when you’re stressed, maybe go outside and play versus get a bag of potato chips, or have fresh fruit. And so, there were things that they learned. And so, yes, I did find out that there were families. I think almost every single family, there was a decrease in fast food consumption and an increase in healthy eating.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow, that’s incredible. That’s very exciting. And you were also teaching them with learning to grab a piece of fruit or go play to manage their stress eating, teaching the children to manage their emotional health in relationship to their bodies, too?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Yes. And the thing about children is that they want to learn, they want to know, and you want to make it interesting. So you bring all kinds of things and do a show and tell. And they participate in that, and because it’s visual, and children tend to be very visual, it was easy for them to see and to understand, and it made sense. So they could get excited about what they were learning and get excited about teaching somebody else. And part of it was as you learned something, then you teach somebody else something so they were able to go home and teach their parents what they were learning.

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s so cool. I’m so fascinated by nutrition and healthy eating and how it all plays together. So, I find this out really interesting. Are you doing anything? Do you have plans for anything with your dissertation moving forward?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I’ve spoken in places across the country, just in different places, different times, being part of different panels, where I’ve talked about health and nutrition and stress. I’m just putting it all together with the spiritual piece. So I’d never want to leave out the spiritual when we talk about the emotional and the physical. Again, because they all go together. If I am emotionally distressed, I’m going to eat. If I’m spiritually distressed, I’m going to eat. But what I need to learn is, is what’s eating me? When I figure out what’s eating me, then I don’t have to eat potato chips, or cookies, or cake, or ice cream. I just need to sit down and say, “What’s eating me? What am I stressed about?”

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
And so, sometimes just sitting down. Part of the way I thrive is to read scripture. Just take some time and sit down and be still to listen for a word from the Lord, so that I can nourish my spirit by God’s word, and then sit and listen for what God might speak to me. So I love music. And music is something that I have so much joy just listening to music, it’s like my spirit just soars. And so, I’m a joyful person anyway, and so music just makes me even more joyful. So, music and sitting down and listening for God, reading God’s word, reading devotionals, hearing what other people have to say. So I listen to a lot of different people in their writings. So, I read several different devotionals each day just to hear and to be open to what the Spirit might be saying through different individuals, not just one person.

Heidi Wilcox:
For sure, for sure, I’m going to take a hard left again because I don’t think our conversation would be complete if we didn’t talk about your own healing story. So, would you share that with us?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Absolutely. So, I’ve had several but I’ll talk about the most recent one, which I mentioned in my sermon at Chapel. On August, the third, 2019, I fainted at home, ended up going to the hospital, and they ran every conceivable test on me and could find absolutely nothing wrong. The cardiologist came in and sat at the foot of my bed and said, “I think your heart stopped.” And I was like, “Not me. I’m the healthiest person I know. I eat right. I exercise. I do everything right.” And he said, “I want you to wear this Holter monitor for a month. And then we’ll see what happens, and of course, [inaudible 00:44:37]. Well, when there’s nothing on it at the end of the month then what are you going to do? Well, on Friday, August, the eighth while I was asleep at 5:00 AM I straight lined.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, my goodness.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
And I straight lined long enough that my doctors said, “There was no CPR given to you. There was no electrical shock given to you. There were no IV medications given to you. The only thing that woke you up was the hand of God.” And so, I ended up getting a pacemaker. And I’m very grateful for that little gadget in my chest. For a while, I just couldn’t figure out, number one, why it happened, and why he woke me up? Because during that same time, there were several people that I didn’t know personally, but people who knew other people who died from going to bed at night and not waking up. So, I was one of the few people that I knew about at that time that actually woke up.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, I feel like God has something in store for me. There’s something I’m supposed to do. I’m supposed to be a witness and tell that God is still a healer. And I can’t explain why some people continue to sleep and why I woke up. I can’t answer that question. The only person I can talk about is me, is that I’m still here. And I believe that I’m here for a purpose to talk about healing, healing emotionally, healing spiritually, healing physically. That God is a healer. And that prayer does change things. There are all kinds of miraculous stories in my life of God healing a brother who the doctor said had a foot in the grave and one on a banana peel, and had metastases. And when they took him to surgery the next day, there was no cancer.

Heidi Wilcox:
No way.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
No cancer from a CAT scan the day before metastases throughout his body. The next day, they just kept pulling out lymph nodes into the lab, and every single one just came back negative whereas before they were all positive. So I’ve just known healing. Personally, my family’s now healing. My grandmother I tell the story when she was alive about they had a hard year with the crops. And she said to my grandfather who was the pastor, “We don’t need to pay our tithes this year because the children need new shoes.” That’s my dad. And so, my grandfather said, “Now we’re going to give to God what belongs to God. And so they continued to tithe and that year they brought in the largest crop they ever had, and there was more than enough. So, I’ve just seen what prayer and faith in God will do. And even if I had died, I would have still been in the presence of God. So, it was a win-win.

Heidi Wilcox:
Are you really okay with that? Because to me thinking about dying. I know it’s a win, kind of. I’m not ready to do that yet. You know what I’m saying? [crosstalk 00:48:20]. So, sometimes, I’m just real curious what you’re saying because I’ve heard other people say it lately like, “Whether I live or die, I’m okay.” And I’m like, “Are you really?”

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I don’t want to die. Let me be very clear. Not anytime soon. I want to live. I have a 13 year old grandson, and one day I’d like to do his wedding. So, I want to live.

Heidi Wilcox:
For sure.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I have so much energy. I’ve written one book that hopefully will be out in a couple of months. But I’ve started on another book. And I just feel like God is calling me at this time in my life to write. And so, I feel like my life is not over that I have things to do. But so do most people who die. Everybody feels like they have a purpose and something to do. So, as a pastor, and as a person who even before I got into ministry, my relationship with the Lord was such that… I’ll give you an example. When I first started preaching the anointing and the power and the presence of the Holy Spirit was so heavy on me that I would preach and literally sweat would be dripping from my hair. My clothes would be soaking wet. Do an altar call, lay hands on people, and they would get healed at the altar.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
So, after services like that, I would always say, “If you’re ready to take me I’m ready to go,” because it was such an awesome experience when the presence of the Lord fills a church, and everyone knows that God’s presence is there, and they all come to the altar to be healed. And they leave there feeling and believing that they were healed. They go to their doctor, and their doctor is saying, “Your blood pressure is fine.” Or this is better, or this is better, or that is better because of God’s presence was there. So, there were times that I say, “Well, if you call me now I’m ready.” Because the glory of the Lord was just so amazing in that place that you don’t think about leaving family or friends because you know that you’re going to see them again one day, and that you are literally caught up in the Spirit at those times.

Heidi Wilcox:
That makes sense. Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. You mentioned your new book, what is the title and when is it coming out?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
It’s called 40 Conversations With God, and it is a book of prayers. Nothing but just prayers, pastoral prayers that I’ve prayed at various times, or some occasional prayers that I’ve done for various reasons. And so, it’s all about prayers, but the second book that I started on is actually about my heart stopping experience, and it comes from a Psalm, I think it’s 118, or 17, “I shall live and not die to declare the glory of the Lord.” So the Message Bible says, “I didn’t die, I lived.” So that’s going to be the title, I Didn’t Die, I Lived.

Heidi Wilcox:
I love that. I love that. It’s perfect. It’s perfect. We will link the one that is coming out soon in the show notes and mention the second one so that people can be sure to be on the lookout and get copies of both of those.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
We have one question that we ask everyone. But before we wrap up the show, is there anything else you’d like to talk about that we haven’t talked about already?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
I’m just so grateful to be able to share my story and to just talk about what God has done, who God is. That no matter where we are in life, whether we need emotional, spiritual, or physical healing, that God has provided resources in the earth through therapists, counselors, nurses, doctors, friends, to be able to help us medications and therapy and treatment. And so, I want people to see the whole realm of healing of God, and not just depend on one thing, but to look at the whole spectrum.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, yeah. Amen to that. So, for our last question, what is one practice because the show is called The Thrive With Asbury Seminary Podcast. What is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
One thing that I do on a regular basis is fast and pray. Jesus fasted. Moses fasted. Elijah fasted. There were in the book of Esther, they fasted to save a nation. So, with Jonah, when they were going to be destroyed, they all fasted, including all the animals. The king said he didn’t even want the animals to have any water. So there are so many examples of fasting in Scripture. I think, for me, fasting and prayer is one of those things that helps me spiritually to thrive and to stay grounded. So, reading God’s word while I’m fasting, praying, singing, playing music, just so that I can be closer and hear a word from the Lord.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s beautiful. Well, Dr. Davis, thank you so much for being a part of the conversation today. I have just thoroughly enjoyed it. And thank you so very much.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Thank you so much for having me. I feel so tremendously blessed just for the invitation. And it was so good to see you face-to-face, too.

Heidi Wilcox:
It was good to see you as well. You are welcome here anytime.

Rev. Dr. Cynthia Davis:
Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Dr. Davis. Isn’t she just the best you guys? I found this entire conversation fascinating and insightful. And I hope it helps you as it helped me take another step toward wholeness. Be sure to be on the lookout for her books. We’ll link to those in the show notes and just grab a copy of those. You won’t want to miss them. So, thanks, Dr. Davis, so much for being on the show today. And as always, you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at Asbury Seminary. Until next time, I hope you’ll go do something that helps you thrive.