Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams: Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way

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Today on the podcast, I got to talk to Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams. She is a speaker, author, youth advocate and ordained Baptist minister. She authored Parable of the Brown Girl that released in February 2020. The book highlights the cultural and spiritual truths that emerge from the lives of young black girls. Parable of the Brown Girl has received awards for Best Young Adult Book from The African American Literary Awards and the New York Black Librarians Caucus. In March of 2022, her next book Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way releases. She also works as Dean of Spiritual Life & Equity at the Hill School and is an instructor of religious studies at the Hill School. Khristi is a graduate of Temple University with a degree in Advertising and a graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary where she obtained a Master of Divinity degree.

In today’s conversation we talk about her calling, her faith journey, what being an advocate means to her, and, of course, her new book Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way. You can go ahead and pre-order a copy on Amazon or wherever books are sold, but in the meantime, let’s listen!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams, Dean of Spiritual Life & Equity; Instructor of Religious Studies at the Hill School

Khristi Lauren Adams is a speaker, author, youth advocate and ordained Baptist minister. Khristi is the author of Parable of the Brown Girl which is published by Fortress Press. The book highlights the cultural and spiritual truths that emerge from the lives of young black girls. Parable of the Brown Girl has received awards for Best Young Adult Book from The African American Literary Awards and the New York Black Librarians Caucus. Her next book, Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way will be released in the Spring of 2022 with Broadleaf Books. A middle grade version of the book titled Black Girls Unbossed: Young World Changers Leading the Way will be released with Beaming Books. She works as Dean of Spiritual Life & Equity at the Hill School. Khristi is also an instructor of Religious Studies at the Hill School. She is the Founder & Director of “The Becoming Conference”, an annual conference and leadership cohort designed to empower, educate & inspire girls between the ages of 13-18. Khristi is a graduate of Temple University with a degree in Advertising and a graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary where she obtained a Master of Divinity degree.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive with Asbury Seminary podcast. I’m your host, Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need. Today on the podcast, I got to talk to Reverend Khristi Lauren Adams. She is a speaker, author, youth advocate and ordained Baptist minister. She authored Parable of the Brown Girl that released in February 2020. The book highlights the cultural and spiritual truth that emerged from the lives of young black girls.

Heidi Wilcox:
Parable of the Brown Girl has received awards for best young adult book from the African American Literary Awards and the New York Black Librarians Caucus. In March of 2022, her next book, Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way releases. She also works as Dean of Spiritual Life and Equity at the Hill School, and is also an instructor of religious studies at the Hill School. She is the founder and director of the Becoming Conference, which is an annual conference in leadership cohort designed to empower, educate, and inspire young girls between the ages of 13 to 18.

Heidi Wilcox:
She’s a graduate of Temple University with a degree in advertising and graduated from Princeton Theological Seminary with a master of divinity degree. I’m delighted to get to talk to Khristi today. In today’s conversation, we talk about her calling, her faith journey, what being an advocate means to her, and of course, her new book, Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way. You can go ahead and pre-order a copy on Amazon or wherever books are sold. But in the meantime, let’s listen.

Heidi Wilcox:
Khristi, it is an absolute honor to get to talk to you today. I’ve really been looking forward to it, and just so looking forward to our conversation.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah, me too. Thanks for having me.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Well, we definitely want to talk about both your books, Parable of the Brown Girl, and then Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way that’s coming out next month, I think, in March, right?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be March 6th, March 8th. March 8th. March 8th.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. I think that’s International Women’s Day too. [crosstalk 00:02:22] How perfect.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yes, yes, yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Did you pick that date on purpose or how did that work out?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Well, I was happy that … I mentioned to my publisher that March is probably a good month because it’s Women’s History Month, and then they came up with that and I thought great. But both their two books, the children’s book will come out a little bit later, March 22nd. But the adult book will come out the 8th.

Heidi Wilcox:
Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for making the time to talk to me. I’m sure the last month, month and a half is busy with editing and things like that.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. Yeah, but it’s … We’re in a pandemic, so who’s really busy?

Heidi Wilcox:
That’s true. That’s true. As I read both of your books, I realized as you probably already know, I’m not telling you anything you don’t know, but you have a very unique way of making spiritual and theological connections from real life stories and experiences. Do you remember how and when you first encountered scripture?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Well, I grew up that “grew up in the church.” My upbringing were parents who were leaders in the church, and so it was a part of our weekly routine. But prior to that, just some of my earliest, earliest memories are of my grandmother. I spent my summers just even when I was two years old. That was the thing with our families. It was like there were a lot of kids and cousins, and they would get dropped off in the south with the grandmother when we were younger. My earlier experience are in North Carolina area called Rocky Mountain, North Carolina. My grandmother and my cousins … My grandmother was a twin, so my great-aunt was there as well, and my great-grandmother and the three of them lived in a home.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah, I know. I’m like, “I should write a book.” [crosstalk 00:04:24]

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, really. The stories that are there.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I know. I’m just like, “What? It’s so rich. It’s rich.” The three of them lived in a one story house that to me as a child felt huge. Again, I was two and have down there too. I was potty trained down there. I’m like, “Mom, what are you doing?” But my mom and my dad, my mom was a teacher and a special education supervisor for her district, but also for school, and my dad was a police detective in New York. You can imagine both of them pretty busy. Anyway, my grandmother had, on the table, these hour daily bread, like [inaudible 00:05:10], and there were these scriptures that were in these little rectangles that you just pick out and they were these different colors.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I don’t know what the colors were. I don’t know if they were [inaudible 00:05:19]. But it wasn’t all the scripture. It was Psalms, Proverbs, some gospels. Before we ate, we’d have to pick up one as the cousins around the table. Pick one and read it. I don’t know. I didn’t know. Again, when I was two and a half, I didn’t … This is a little bit later when I was able to. That was my earliest experiences with scripture.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:05:47] read them around the table, and-

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
… it was a part of what we did.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. What a foundation to just have that just woven into your life. It wasn’t a thing. It was just what you did. Yeah.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
How did you move from having a family knowledge of faith to having a more personal, I’m going to call it, heart knowledge. I don’t know if that’s a good term, but where it became real for you.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. It started probably junior high, high. Once I was doing youth ministry stuff, and even then it was still a part of our family and our routine. But our youth ministry was evolving, and you’ll get the speakers or the youth pastors that will come in and really make it personal. There were a few moments I think those seeds were planted that I think it started. Because I really didn’t really begin to explore that aspect of my faith until college. But I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge the fact that those seeds were planted maybe I think around junior high, high, where you start to take more responsibility for your … It really happened. This might seem like a little bit of a tragic story, but not to make it go there. But a friend of mine was killed that I played basketball with when I was 16.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, that’s hard.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. I was 16. She was 16. We played for rival schools, but we were on the same summer league, and her dad killed … It was a domestic thing. Her dad killed her himself.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, that’s so sad. I’m sorry.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
He killed her mother. Yeah. But I remember a conversation that I had with her. We also went to the same church and I remember she was asking … I had asked her how come I hadn’t seen her at youth ministry, she said she didn’t really believe in that anymore. I remember just being like, “Okay. Cool.” When she died, I remembered that conversation so distinctly that I was like, “Oh my gosh, I didn’t … Oh my gosh.” I felt responsibility. You’re a kid, you feel guilt. There’s a whole lot there, and you’re like, “Why am I a part of this thing if I’m not taking it seriously?” A moment like that, for me, I felt was a missed opportunity because I had been attending and being a part of this faith community for moments like this. Again, I was a kid, but for me to brush it off, I felt like that was really when I started to take a turn.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. I think your moment, unfortunately, maybe came sooner than for a lot of other people. But I know a lot of people are maybe in a similar place to your friend and they’re encountering things in the church that they’re like, “Oh, I thought it was this way, but what is being said and how people are living doesn’t line up,” or there’s just various struggles or people get treated badly sometimes in the church. Anywhere really. But especially in the church, we hold people to a higher standard and then it can be really disheartening.

Heidi Wilcox:
For me personally, I’ve been thinking about some of this too. Maybe it doesn’t work quite how I thought it was going to work and I can be disenfranchised a little bit, not to the point that I want to give up on it, but just trying to make it align and make it real and make it live. A lot of people are jumping ship. Why have you chosen to hang on? Why should we keep choosing to hang on to this?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I’m hanging on by a thread. I’m very [crosstalk 00:09:56]

Heidi Wilcox:
Aren’t we all?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. I can’t say … I’m hanging on by a thread, which is very faith the size of a mustard seed. If there’s any scripture that has come to mind that seems so relevant to that analogy, it’s that. Right? It’s quite literally that’s all I have. That’s literally all I have left, and [crosstalk 00:10:22].

Heidi Wilcox:
But that’s enough, right?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
That has to be enough. I think that we have preached that scripture, but this is a time in society, particularly with everything going on, where any of us are living that, and to eradicate the guilt behind it of not doing these things that we did before that made us feel more spiritual or feel more connected or … I just remember if I went to church on a Sunday, even if I barely listened to the preacher, I felt like I did something. You know what I mean? Your conscience was clear for the rest of the day. Even subconsciously, you felt like I went to church, I did my thing.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Wow. To go back and think about that, that’s where I am now. Just going back and being like, “Wow, those things that made me feel, it’s not enough.” It’s not happening for starters because of where we’re at, but then also, it’s not enough. But I’m having to accept the fact that my hanging on a thread mustard seed just a little bit of is enough and not feel bad about that. Allow that to be enough for where I am and think that I’m also a believer that the previous prayers of my previous life, those things are sustaining me even now. All those sermons I listened to, but kind of didn’t, those times I fasted, those were for moments and seasons like now.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I think I am, that’s why when people say, “Oh, you’re the manifestation of your grandmother’s prayers,” or things like that, when I hear phrases like that, I also think that same thing for us, that the seasons where we were more in it or all of those years that we were building something, a foundation, I think they were for times of drought, and that’s where we’re in.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. At our church, our pastor just concluded a series. Not exactly what we’re talking about, but he was talking about the seasons of relationship. There’s spring when it’s like everything’s great and there’s nothing wrong, and then there’s summer, and you’re like, “Well, I have to put a little bit of work into this, and maybe start weeding a little bit,” but still really great. I want to definitely keep doing this, and then there’s fall and you get a good harvest. We’ve all heard this, but then there’s winter and you have to decide, things need to heal and things need to maybe change, and you to have to decide if you’re going to reinvest in any relationship too. But what I also hear you saying is, and what I hear other people saying is that we don’t just want to go through the motions anymore. We want it to be a real in a new way.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Very true.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. You currently work as the Dean of Spiritual Life and Equity at the Hill School, and you also are an instructor of religious studies there as well. But you’ve done work, you may still be doing work as an advocate for young black girls. How did you experience your calling to that?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I think it slowly evolved, and I came to the realization it wasn’t like a … I wish I had, out of college, said, “This is what I’m going to do,” and there are some people that do know. I knew I was supposed to work with young people in general. It’s still pretty consistent with what I do. Even then, I wasn’t really sure if … I was 21 when I graduated college, so I wasn’t sure if I was like was it because I’m young that I want to work with young people, or is it because I grew up in youth ministry and there were people that worked with me and I want to? I was still trying to figure that out.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It stayed with me in these spaces that I’m in, whether I’m at Azusa Pacific University in California where I worked or Georgetown or at a residential treatment facility, there is always … Because of my visibility in the positions that I have, I’m usually in spaces where there is a group of young black girls that gravitate toward me, or vice versa, that I gravitate toward because I see myself, right? I see myself at 15 or 16 or 10 years old, and I want to pour into them in ways that either I was poured into, and then also in ways that I feel like … Things that I needed to hear, advice, people that I needed. I want to be the person that I needed.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
That’s always just been a given. It didn’t matter where I was. I wanted to do that. If it was something as formal as the Becoming Conference, which I’ll talk about, that’s formalized, or the counseling center piece when I was working as a pastoral counselor at a counseling center and was getting particular every demographic of girls, or being at [NAPU 00:15:54] or here at the Hill where it’s a predominantly white space, however, where there’s a subset of young black girls. I might say, “Okay, come on over,” that type of thing. For so long, it was by default, it wasn’t packaged. I didn’t see it as like, “Oh, this is what I …” It was just what was happening.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
These relationships were growing and establishing. When until, I don’t know, maybe I think I was teaching vacation Bible school once at my old church, and it was a group of girls, black girls, and we were doing this purpose worksheet of writing down all your values, and it was a worksheet that helped you come up with your mission statement. Yeah. It was really great. I was doing it with them, and in that, the words advocacy, young girls, and those types of things were part of mine, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is part of my mission statement.” It was really in the last few years that that came about. Because of that though, I was able to … I had words to it. Right?

Heidi Wilcox:
Right.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Then right from there, I was like, “Okay, I can be more intentional with it.” It’s not just, “Oh, I just happen to be here and this happens to happen.” At the time, I was doing the counseling and I started the Becoming Conference, which now will probably become a retreat, and that was for young, I said at the time, black and brown girls, and I was doing a one day conference. But I only did it two years, and then the pandemic happened. Couldn’t do the conference. Then we did a little retreat last year with about 20 girls at a small camp, one of those camp places in August. Now that we’re in this post-pandemic world, I’m trying to think through will we bring back the conference? I don’t want to do a virtual. Some things work really well virtually, but not always with kids and not always in the summer. They’ve been virtual all year.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. For sure.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. I will likely scale down the conference to, especially now since I’m writing about leadership and stuff, becoming a leadership retreat where I just pour into a smaller group.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Since you’re still thinking about what the conference looks like this year, it may be too early to ask, but is there a website or anything people can-

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
You can look at past stuff on the website. But Iambecoming.net is the website for Becoming, and it shows you the Becoming Conference in 2017 and ’18, and I think I put up some pictures from last year. I’m not sure.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. But that’s where people-

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:18:40] Instagram page too.

Heidi Wilcox:
Do you what? I’m sorry.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
There’s an Instagram page too. People go and see-

Heidi Wilcox:
Awesome.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
… which is Becoming Conference.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. [crosstalk 00:18:49] We’ll definitely link it to there, so people can look at the past, and then that’s where for the future, if they’re interested. Okay, cool. We’ll definitely link out to that.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Cool.

Heidi Wilcox:
You mentioned advocate, and I wanted to ask you, because that’s who you are, what does being an advocate mean to you?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
First really, when I think of that word, I actually think about when I worked at a residential treatment facility right out of college, and they had … I wrote about it a little bit in Parable, the intro. They had girls on a unit with severe emotional difficulties, and they were about, I don’t know, 10 of them or 15. Each of the girls could have their own advocate. We were residential counselors just working there or whatever. If they so choose after a while of being on the unit for them, they could have an advocate, and basically that person would be their person that would stand up for them, that would be in …

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
If there was a meeting about them or if there was an issue that occurred, they’d be in the meeting or be in the meeting with the counselor. They favored them, to an extent. One girl, Danielle, this was a long time ago, so nobody would know her name, but she was like, “Will you be my advocate?”

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
She hadn’t had an advocate. When I’d come on the unit for my shift, and be like, “Hey, advocate. Advocate,” you’d hear them. Then different girls had their own advocates and they’d be like, “That’s my advocate. Advocate,” and they just … Through the word realm, but it was so endearing. [crosstalk 00:20:32]

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
You really were. You mentored, you built the relationship with that girl and you loved all the girls, worked with all of them, but that was your girl. That has stuck with me since then, to you’re the go-between, the person that defends, that sticks up, that speaks on behalf of, that articulates what they can’t articulate.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
That winds up being the intercessor, right? Like when Jesus said, “I’m going to send you an advocate. I’m going to send you a comforter. I’m going to send you someone to be there as that go-between,” and that’s how I see advocacy.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. What power in that name. Because I was using it just … When I asked you to define that, I wasn’t thinking you’d give me a Merriam-Webster definition. But just to hear you tell the story of those girls calling you that, that was your name. They didn’t call you Khristi.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. Right. “Hey, advocate.” I’m like, “Hey.” It was really cute. It’s really cute. When I hear the term, that’s what comes to mind, and I’m so happy about that, that that’s some of my earlier experiences with the term, because it’s not so hard that makes any sense.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s more friendship-based, relationship-based. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I loved reading both of your books, Parable of the Brown Girl and Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way. In both of them, you share stories, or especially in the first book, you called them parables. But I found it true in both books that I read that you took life stories and used those to communicate everyday truth, which I thought was pretty awesome. How have you seen God use narratives that often get ignored to teach us these important lessons?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. I see it all the time. With this particular demographic, since we’re talking about the books, we’re not paying attention. I think as adults, particularly with young people, we spend a lot of our energy trying to pour in, to advise, to guide, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But how much do we spend on the opposite end of that? Because we’re not intentional about that learning part, that it’s a give and take, you’re teaching but you’re also learning at the same time. Because we don’t go into these relationships with that perspective, it’s so easy to just, “Oh, okay. Whatever you have to say,” just to brush off what the kids are trying to say.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I talked to a girl last night because I wasn’t thinking about a third book. I talked to one girl, we had about an-hour long conversation and she just had a hard life. By the end of the conversation, I said, “I’m going to ask you a series of questions, really not because I’m interrogating you, but because I want to know, I want to learn. What do you think about this?” I said, “What do you think about … Have you thought about why God maybe put you in this situation? Do you feel like God put you in this situation? Or why do some people have certain lives and others have harder lives?” She said, “I try not to really think about that too much. I do get angry.”

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
But she said that, “The thing about me is that it’s the what. It’s the what do I do with this life that I’ve been given?” I asked her about prayer a little bit. I don’t know if I worded it prayer, but I had said something along the lines of, “Well, what role does God play in all this?” She was saying that God … She’s like, “I know God can give me direction, and I ask for peace and things, but there’s a lot of things that I have to do myself.” Anyway, later that evening, I was just thinking about the conversation.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I was like, “Okay. Basically what she’s saying is we put a lot of it on God. You need to do this. You need to change all of that.” But this girl has come to the conclusion that God isn’t her magician, right? That she has to take personal responsibility over her life, and that when she needs God, she reaches out. But she’s like, “I know that I am empowered, that I’m sort of …” I learned a lot from that. But that’s an example of how, because it seemed like people don’t have these conversations with her.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so important to listen. How else are we going to learn? Yeah. For sure. Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way is an insightful inquiry into the lives of eight young black women who were agitating for change, imagining a better world through a variety of leadership styles. Why was now the right time for you to write this book?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It actually started in 2020 on the heels of Parable coming out right at the beginning of the pandemic. I really wasn’t thinking about writing another book. That year I thought was going to be spent enjoying the fruit of what came from Parable, which we will go right into lockdown and I’m-

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, and then quarantine, and you’re like-

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. [inaudible 00:26:24] I didn’t want to write per se during that, because I was like, “Look, we’re just trying to survive. I’m going to bake cupcakes and watch TV. We’re just going to do this.” But in the midst of that, you saw this generation of young people really were at the center of attention because everybody was like, “How are the kids doing? How’s the class of 2020? They can’t physically graduate. We’re having virtual things on TV.” Obama, I guess, had a graduation on TV and some other stuff, and then some of the racial and social unrests that took place in the summer of 2020. Who you saw at the forefront of a lot of that were young people. Young people were the ones. We were talking about it.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
We were watching them trying to see how they were, how was their mental health? The whole thing. I couldn’t ignore it. When you see … One girl in the book and her co-partner started their own organization called Gen Z: We Want To Live, and you read articles about her and her partner leading a 1500 person rally, State House, the providence State House, Capitol. Those weren’t the only ones. It wasn’t all about necessarily just racial injustice, right? You’re seeing kids just be creative and innovative and resilient because they’re dealing with the whole pandemic stuff and they were really rising. That was why I thought, “Okay, this makes sense now.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. You told a story about one girl who was diagnosed with cancer and then used her situation to go on and benefit other children, and I was like, “Wow,” because I don’t think that’s what I would be thinking about.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I know. I wouldn’t do that now as an adult.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:28:26] alone as a seven, eight-year-old at the time, and she’s still continuing that. It wasn’t a fad. That is very much who she is. They’re remarkable. We can learn so much just from them. I am a big believer that these girls will be the ones we’ll be reading about years from now or seeing them. I wanted to write their beginnings. Not only that, I think, “Man, what would it be?” I think about the Stacey Abrams or Kamala Harris or Michelle Obama like, “Wow, what it if I would’ve read a chapter about them when they were 18? What would that have looked like now?” That was the direction that I went on.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How did you get connected with these young girls?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Some I knew already. Saw and knew. The first chapter, I was already connected to her. She actually interviewed me for my Parable of the Brown Girl book launch, and she-

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh wow.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
… [crosstalk 00:29:31] Yeah. That’s how I knew. I knew I wanted to write about her. I knew about Brown Kids Read. Some of the other ones, since I was home, I was able to do some research or I just saw their name on something. But I tried to do some digging. I really wanted to do girls that were not necessarily like Greta Thunberg. She’s out. She’s out there. You see her. I wanted to do the ones that are doing the hard work that might be a little bit more behind the scenes or may not have the national platform right now or global platform right now, maybe just doing some hard local work.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I did some Googling. There may have been an article that came up, or sometime, like for Amara, climate justice activist. I was looking up another climate justice activist that was in the public eye a lot, looking at some of the organizations that she was a part of. If you go on and you meet the team or who the team members are, you see a whole list of other young women. That’s how I found her. That’s how I [inaudible 00:30:45] You can see, you can look at the ones that are really in the public eye. They’re likely working alongside some people that are just as strong as they are.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. I really love how you found those who might not be as well known to shine the light on them. Yeah, that’s really cool. I also noticed, I like to read book dedications. I noticed that you dedicated your book to your sister, Chloe.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[inaudible 00:31:13]

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How does she inspire you?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Oh man. Well, Chloe has been inspiring our family since she was born. She’s 13 years younger than me, which means I was 13 when she was born and quite the temperamental teenager. It wasn’t good news that when I was like, “We’re having a baby.” It was like this wasn’t good news for me. My older brother, he’s just a boy and he’s older and he just, “Okay, fine.” For me, she was a threat. Of course, I grew to love her. You know what happens. But it was very slow. A slow like [inaudible 00:31:53]. But I can’t really … Just watching her grow up, she’s 27 now, I think on her birthday, I was like, “Man, what would our family have looked like at all if Chloe had been born?” She very much is the glue. She has walked her own path, but she’s been influenced and just honors her family and her upbringing.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
But she is also very … She uses her gifts very well. She stays true to who she is and she walks that balance really well. A lot of times, you have to .. Well, she’s not a kid, but younger people. It’s one or the other. They either are just a express image of how they grew up and just … That’s what I’m dealing with a lot of my teenagers now. Some of them are like, “I’m just going here because my dad wants me to go,” or I’m just … To college. They’re doing what their parents are influenced them and wanting them to do, and wanting to go another way, but stuck. Or they’re just completely rebellious, whereas I think Chloe does a great job walking that line. It’s been fun to watch her.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That’s awesome. I’m an only child, so I envy sibling relationships a little bit.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yes. Well, you know what? It’s true. When she grew up, I was mostly concerned. I’m like, “Man, she’s going to grow up and feel like an only child because her siblings are …” My brother was 17, I was 13. He was on his way out to college. I was thinking she was just going to you on her own. But we really made sure that she had that relationship. There are some sibling relationships that when they have that big of an age gap, they don’t even know each other. We wanted to make sure that that didn’t happen.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. When I was born, I always wanted an older brother. I’m not sure how my parents were going to make that happen, but … Anyway. But yeah, I think that’s pretty awesome. As you wrote Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way, what do you know about God now that you didn’t know then?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
That’s a interesting question from Unbossed, because I would get that normally for Parable, because Parable, it’s spiritual on purpose. It’s theological on purpose, whereas Unbossed, not so much.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right, right.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It’s more about an affirmation as opposed to what I know now that I didn’t. These girls, whether they believe or not, and some of them have strong convictions about their faith, but regardless, they have strong convictions about their calling. They’re certain this is what I was put on this earth to do. Wow. To be young and to be that sure, [crosstalk 00:35:05].

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I’m a little jealous of that [crosstalk 00:35:07]

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. Right. Right. I’m jealous now. Because I feel like I’ve made contributions, but I was just telling a friend of mine today, I was like, “I’m thinking about …” As I get older, I’m like, “I want to have a meaningful contribution to this world, and what does that look like, even for me beyond books, in different types of practice?” These girls really push that, pushed me there. Sonya was very much like, “This is my purpose. This is my calling, and this is …” That’s where they wake up. They wake up in the morning and they think about their call … They just do it, and I’m like, “Oh God, I’m not there.”

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
But I need to see my life that way and I want to live my life in such a way where it just so naturally comes out of me to … You talked about Grace and her illness and all that. She’s just, “I’m going to serve other people. I’m going to do …” I’m like, “Oh!” I spend a lot of time reminding myself, “Oh right. I got to do this. Oh, right. I got to get back to this,” whereas these girls don’t do that. That is essentially who they are.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. As I read the book, a quote … I don’t remember if it was from you or you were quoting somebody else. If I need to give credit to somebody else, [crosstalk 00:36:35] I apologize to them. But you said, “Do work you love. Regardless of income or whether it ever becomes a career is the key to fulfillment.” I read that and I was like, “I want that too.” How do we find our passion?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. One of the girls said that. I don’t know which one. Sounds like Kennedy. I need to know the book very well. I’m getting there. You can write a book [crosstalk 00:37:03]

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I should have written it down too. Not just putting quotes around what I liked.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I think that’s Kennedy. Do work you love. Say it again.

Heidi Wilcox:
Do work you love. Regardless of income or whether it ever becomes our career is the key to fulfillment.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Okay. That’s either Kennedy or Sonya. Sounds like one of the two of them.

Heidi Wilcox:
I love how you know the girls so well that you know what they’re going to say.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It sounds like something one of them would say. I remember when I was writing about Sanu, she was talking a lot about how she wants to make money. That’s why I think that might be her. She wants to make money doing what she does, but that’s not the focus for her. What you love to do, that should drive you. That passion behind it. But I think so many of us need to identify that, be able to articulate what do we love? For me in my own life, I think about my job, and some people it’s like … Just what I do here at the Hill and the title and all that, for some, that would be enough. That is part of who they are. It kind of is, but I know there’s other aspects to my calling that this space alone doesn’t fulfill.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I was talking to someone the other day about career and vocation, and the difference. This is very much a part of my career, and I think I’m living out aspects of my calling here at my job. But because it’s not my vocation and the totality of my calling, this is not enough. This can’t be enough. Because of that, now I have seek out other ways of fulfilling that calling, and the book writing and some of the other things that I do is that. But I’m now in a place where I’m still thinking that through even more. Now, some people are just doing their calling, vocation career. All of it is all mixed in one.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Some people [inaudible 00:39:11] to do that and that’s totally fine. But then there are others of us that are like, “Well, no, until I can get to that place, I need to work retail. I need to make you come and work and do whatever.” God could have still called you to those spaces where you’re doing the Lord’s work in some way. Right? But at the same time, that’s something that I constantly have to ask myself, “Am I fulfilling my calling in all aspects of my life? If not, what needs to change, shift or where else do I need to be putting my attention?”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. I’m not quite sure how to ask this question so you can help me out or whatever if we need to. But I’m just thinking about you highlighted eight black girls who are doing really amazing things. I would imagine that all girls, all women, we have some of the same struggles, but it’s different for black girls because there are different struggles that go along with that. How is it different and why is it so important that we understand that? Then can … Yeah, I’ll end there. I might have a follow-up question.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:40:23] that was good enough. I could have written Unbossed: How Young Girls Are Leading the Way, which was the first direction that I was going in. I feel like … I saw it recently. I know somebody’s writing a book about teenage activism and girls, but it’s not the same. But anyway, I think that book might be being written. But I could have gone in that direction and it would’ve been a similar looking book, and sufficient. It is what I think I thought about originally. Actually, I was just going to do young people. Then I just narrowed it down. Then as a follow-up to Parable, it made a lot of sense to go in this direction.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
But all that to say, there’s one girl, Amara, the climate justice activist, and I learned so much from her and I’ve only had one conversation with her. It was long, but one. When she was talking about environmental ethics and climate justice, I thought she was talking about how her racial justice activism, it was inevitable. She couldn’t separate the two, even though a lot of her focus is on climate justice. She talked about growing up in Maine, she loves Maine. She talked about how there are some, well, what is called sundown towns. How she can’t go into after sundown if you’re driving around and you’re a black person, and she was like [inaudible 00:41:56].

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
She talks about being outside, outdoors. That is an environmental ethics issue, but that racial justice intersects with that. She talks about growing up and how socioeconomics and race intersects and how that makes for certain types of demographics to grow up in certain areas. When they grow up in this area, their housing is such that they’re not around a lot of greenery. The houses [inaudible 00:42:32] top of one another, and then just one street or whatever, and that’s fine. But she was like, she didn’t have access to the environment, or how there’s certain areas that are mainly black areas, African and African-American areas in Maine where they’re living literally near a coal mine.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I read this in Jonathan Kozol’s Ordinary … Where is it? Ordinary Resurrections. He talks about in Harlem, how there were certain areas that were by these industrial plants that were causing the kids to have asthma, and these are mainly black and brown kids. The last example that she used … Well, when she was talking about growing up in a certain environment, not having access to the outdoors, she’s like, “I want to love …” She had a love and a passion for the outdoors, but she was like, “But I don’t have access to the outdoors in ways that others do.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:43:37] different types of environments. The last thing she mentioned was she was talking about Trayvon Martin and when he died and how he’s walking with his hood outdoors. She was like, “That was a racial issue to be a black kid, just being able to walk outdoors.” I say all that to say something like environmental ethics or her being a climate justice activist. If the race and her being a black woman were not a part of that, I wouldn’t have gotten that component to it. We would’ve just talked about climate, and that’s all well and good, but she’s sitting here saying, “Do you notice these other things? These are environmental ethical issues that intersect with race.”

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I was like, “Wow, I never really looked at it that way. I never thought about Trayvon Martin as …” Now people have to have their talks with these young black boys and say, “Make sure you don’t walk out in the dark after a certain time. Make sure you don’t … Walking outside is an issue.” That’s an environmental issue. I was like, “Wow. That’s powerful.” It’s those types of things that intersect … The intersection between their blackness and their gender too, and their activism. That’s what I learned from a lot of these girls.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, for sure. For sure. I also, reading the book, saw a lot of hope for the future. Because I think you said … I think it was this book. I’ve read both of them, so I don’t want to get them-

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It’s okay.

Heidi Wilcox:
[crosstalk 00:45:02] But you were talking about how our generation, we might have started life with a little bit of hope, but then September 11th happened and the recession of 2008 or whatever, and then now this. I don’t know. It can be hard to find hope, but reading this book, they are bringing the hope. Because I feel like they were born into a world that we all heard has no hope. But they were really [crosstalk 00:45:28] born into a world that had no hope, and so they’re like, “Well, we’re just going to bring it because it’s not here.”

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. They don’t know to … I remember I had a conversation with a 10-year-old, and I said, “I never had active shooter drills growing up. We had fire drills,” and she was like, “You’ve never had an active shooter drill?” I was like, “No.” She made me feel like … It was like, “I never had it,” but she was looking at me like I was ancient, and I’m like, “Wow, this is what they …” Pre-pandemic, right? They were still looking over their shoulders, hopefully nobody will shoot up our school today. They were literally … A lot of them were born around 9/11. They were born into this world, yet they are so hopeful. They are so like, “I’m going to be this,” and they’re so creative and innovative and they see … They’re not as negative as we think they are. I think the adults are more negative. Kids are still [inaudible 00:46:30] They can see the possibilities in this.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. As readers read your book, what do you hope that they take away from it?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I think a few things. Like I said earlier, I hope that they feel good about where the kids are headed. The kids are all right, that they learn themselves, and the ways that I … That there are bits and pieces, the way I learn from Amara that they are enlightened by. Then I hope, particularly the ones that feel like they’re called to leadership or already leaders, that they learn about which leadership style that they may fit in, if it’s [inaudible 00:47:20] if not. But that they see bits and pieces of their own.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I’m not sure what my particular … I never really reflected on that. The thing that I’m saying I want them to walk away with, I’m like, “What did I walk away with? What kind of leader am I?” I think I’m more of a strategic leader. But I do want them to think about all the leadership styles that they saw, and no matter their race or gender or whatever, to say, “Oh, I might be more of a pace setter like Kennedy.” That type of thing. I’d love for people to say that.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s so important for young people to be able to see themselves doing things that when I was their age, I never would’ve imagined.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
No. Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
No. Yeah.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
[crosstalk 00:48:07] peers. That’s another thing I do. But the younger ones that wind up reading it, I do want them to say, “Oh, another 15-year-old? I’m 15.” Sometimes we-

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, I can do that.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yeah. Sometimes we’ll share and say, “Oh, you should read this book about this X person who is older,” which is fine, and then that’s representation. But another form of it too is, “Wow. This 13-year-old did that,” or, “Oh, she’s in college? I’m in college.” That type of thing.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I think it was [Tia 00:48:35] who was already inspiring. I forget the other one’s name. I should remember. But Tia was already inspiring somebody else to go out and do the very thing-

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Yes.

Heidi Wilcox:
… that we’re talking about.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I think it might have been [Jayshel 00:48:46], because I think … Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I’m thinking about Jayshel because she was one of the first conversations I had, but she was talking about how that started with March For Our Lives, part of it. That she watched the March For Our Lives kids and was like, “I’m going to do something similar.” Yeah, it was her because then later when I went back and interviewed Tia, she was telling me about that, and I was like, “Wow, there was a girl that I had interviewed that didn’t necessarily mention your name, but mention seeing you all.” The thing about Tia … I’m going to do these Instagram Live conversations on Sundays, starting, not this Sunday, but next Sunday, with each of the girls every Sunday.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Some of the girls are still like, “I’ve got my organization.” Some have gone off to college and still trying to do … Tia is like, “Nah, I need a break.” I remember being like, “Oh man, you’re not doing what I wrote in the book.” But that’s teaching me. She went through something hard, obviously, with the Parkland shooting, what that does to your psyche, then diving into doing activism work. Why should she still be doing that? Why, shouldn’t she take a break and go to Stanford, do her work and focus on being a 22-year-old or however old she is now? She’s [inaudible 00:50:24] and stuff like that. She’s just exploring these different parts, but she stepped back.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Now she’s going to therapy. I wrote in the book that she just started going to therapy two years after. She just went full out, and that’s the other thing for these kids too. They’re in the midst of all this trauma, particularly now with the pandemic, and there’s going to be point where they need to step back and they need to just focus on themselves. We want to see them, we want them to be doing things and to perform and show us that you’re the hope. She’s showing me that she’s the hope through her just being like, “I’m not doing anymore.”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. That you need a break and you need to take care of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a good lesson, too. Yeah, for sure. We’ve talked about a great many things, and I so enjoyed our conversation. We have one question that we ask everyone. But before I do, is there anything else you want to mention that I didn’t know to ask you?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
No, this is great.

Heidi Wilcox:
All right. Well, our last question is, because the show is called the Thrive with Asbury Seminary podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
I have a Peloton. [crosstalk 00:51:44]

Heidi Wilcox:
Nice. I want a Peloton.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
That you won?

Heidi Wilcox:
No, I want one.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Oh, I was like, “You won a Peloton?”

Heidi Wilcox:
[crosstalk 00:51:52] Maybe we speak that into existence.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Right. I have a Peloton upstairs, and I have similar weights and stuff. One thing I’ve been doing, particularly the last … I’m trying to do throughout the winter, is do something for my body every day. It’s not like a weight loss journey or anything like that. It really is very much a … Even if it’s 15 minutes, half hour, where I am tending to my body, that’s how I’m seeing it. It’s actually been a little bit liberating, because before it was like, “I got to work out because I want this outcome.” Those are the types of things that you’re trying to get an hour in or whatever, and no, I’m like, “No.” I’m seeing it like body ministry, particularly when the stressed. I had a massage the other week for my birthday, and so they’re like-

Heidi Wilcox:
Nice.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
… “Oh, you’re …” You know how they say you carry a lot of stress in your shoulders?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
We’re carrying a lot in our bodies, particularly now. Stress and anxiety. With it being winter, if you’re in the colder months, those that live in colder areas geographically, it affects your bones being cold. You tighten up, the whole nine. I’ve just been like, “Okay, how can I get my bones lubricated and my body moving?” You still feel good about yourself because the endorphins come. But just doing something, doesn’t have to be long, doesn’t have to be this long outcome, but where I’m just allowing my body to move, and whatever I’m carrying on it, allowing it to move so that the things that I’m carrying and building up have a little bit of a release.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
It’s really helpful, particularly in the winter because it’s like you don’t want to work out. I just want to lay on the couch. I don’t want to do anything. But in the summer, it’s easier to work out. I’m going to go for a run. You’re motivated. But now is the time for me because this is the time where I just don’t want to do it. Everything is telling me is against the whole thing. Even today, I’m like, “It doesn’t matter what I have going on. I’m on duty tonight.” I’m like, “Okay, how can I find half hour to tend to my body?”

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I love that, and I love that perspective that it’s just I’m taking care of my body. I’m not trying to get fit for summer or whatever. I’m like, “Oh, well, I want to reevaluate why I work out.” Yeah. Thank you for that, and thank you so much for this whole conversation. [crosstalk 00:54:20] I’ve so enjoyed it.

Rev. Khristi Lauren Adams:
Me, too.

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Khristi. Isn’t she just the best, you guys? I could not have enjoyed this conversation more, and so appreciate her taking the time to share with us today. I just found so much hope in the stories of these girls that she shared, and I’m just inspired to look at the generation coming behind us and see the ways that they are doing things that I think our generation never really imagined.

Heidi Wilcox:
I’m just really hopeful right now, and just so appreciate her work with these young women and sharing these stories. Like I said at the top of the show, if you haven’t already, be sure to pick up a copy of Unbossed: How Black Girls Are Leading the Way. It comes out in March, but you can go ahead and pre-order your copy today. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s episode with Reverend Khristi Lauren Adams. As always, you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at @Asburyseminary. Until next time, I hope you’ll go do something that helps you thrive.