Sandra McCracken–Singer. Song-writer. Hymn writer.

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Overview

Sandra McCracken, singer-songwriter and hymn writer from Nashville, Tennessee, joins the podcast today. She is a prolific recording artist and has produced 14 solo albums over two decades. Her best-selling release, Psalms (2015) received critical acclaim, followed by God’s Highway (2017) which made the top 50 on Billboard Heatseekers chart without a major label.

Blending the old and new, Sandra has also shown a unique ability to recast sacred scripture texts into theologically rich yet accessible songs. Her thoughtful lyrics and gospel melodies in songs like “We Will Feast In The House Of Zion,” “Steadfast” and “Thy Mercy My God” have become staple anthems in churches across the U.S. As a published writer, she contributes a regular column in “Christianity Today” and is working on her first book that will come out later this year.

In today’s episode, we talk about her new album “Patient Kingdom,” how we keep worshipping in difficult times, her spiritual journey and, of course, her new book. Sandra will be speaking in chapel at Asbury Seminary on March 9 at 11 a.m. ET in Estes Chapel. We invite you to join in-person with COVID-19 policies in place, or online at Asbury.to/live or on the Asbury Seminary Chapel Facebook page.

Now, let’s listen to my conversation with Sandra!

*The views expressed in this podcast don’t necessarily reflect the views of Asbury Seminary.

Sandra McCracken, Singer-songwriter and hymn writer.

Sandra McCracken is a singer-songwriter and hymn writer from Nashville, Tennessee. A prolific recording artist, McCracken has produced 14 solo albums over two decades. Her best selling release, Psalms (2015) received critical acclaim, followed by God’s Highway (2017) which made the top 50 on Billboard Heatseekers chart without a major label. She has had songs featured in TV, including ‘Ten Thousand Angels’ on ABC’s Grey’s Anatomy and has over 15 million streams. Blending the old and new, Sandra has also shown a unique ability to recast sacred scripture texts into theologically rich yet accessible songs. Her thoughtful lyrics and gospel melodies in songs like “We Will Feast In The House Of Zion,” “Steadfast” and “Thy Mercy My God” have become staple anthems in churches across the U.S. As a published writer, she contributes a regular column in “Christianity Today” and is working on her first book. Her latest release, Patient Kingdom is available now.

Heidi Wilcox, host of the Thrive Podcast

Writer, podcaster, and social media manager, Heidi Wilcox shares stories of truth, justice, healing and hope. She is best known as the host of Spotlight, (especially her blooper reel) highlighting news, events, culturally relevant topics and stories of the ways alumni, current students and faculty are attempting something big for God. If you can’t find her, she’s probably cheering on her Kentucky Wildcats, enjoying a cup of coffee, reading or spending time with her husband, Wes.

Transcript

Heidi Wilcox:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast. I’m your host Heidi E. Wilcox, bringing you conversations with authors, thought leaders, and people just like you, who are looking to connect where your passion meets the world’s deep need.

Heidi Wilcox:
Sandra McCracken, singer songwriter, and hymn writer from Nashville, Tennessee joins the podcast today. She is a prolific recording artist and has produced 14 solo albums over two decades. Her best selling released songs in 2015 received critical acclaim, followed by God’s Highway in 2017, which made the top 50 on Billboard Heatseekers Chart without a major label. Blending the old and the new, Sandra has also shown a unique ability to recast sacred scripture texts into theologically rich, yet accessible, songs. Her thoughtful lyrics and gospel melodies in songs like We Will Feast in the House of Zion, Steadfast, and Thy Mercy My God have become staple anthems in churches across the US. As a published writer, she contributes a regular column to Christianity Today, and is working on her first book that will come out later this year.

Heidi Wilcox:
In this episode, we talked about her new album Patient Kingdom: How We Keep Worshiping in Difficult Times, her spiritual journey, and, of course, her new book. Sandra will be speaking in chapel at Asbury Seminary on March 9th at 11 AM in Estes Chapel. We invite you to join in person with COVID-19 policies in place, or online at Asbury.2/Live, or on the Asbury Seminary Chapel Facebook page. Now, let’s listen to my conversation with Sandra.

Heidi Wilcox:
Well, Sandra, thanks so much for taking the time to be a part of the Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast. Really glad to have you here today.

Sandra McCracken:
Thanks so much, Heidi. It’s good to be with you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How is everything going in Nashville?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, everybody has had such a crazy year, but there are certainly some gifts in it. Things are going okay … We’re all kind of at home together, my kids and family, and working, so creative life … Somebody told me this recently, this idea that it’s like all the food on your plate is touching everything, but you feel so disconnected. That’s kind of where we’re living right now.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Has COVID helped or hindered your creativity? Because I’ve heard different things depending on the person.

Sandra McCracken:
Well, in the beginning we had one added layer, because right before COVID we had a tornado that came through our neighborhood, and-

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, that’s right.

Sandra McCracken:
Our house was okay, but we had a lot of neighbors and friends that kind of lost everything. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
Overnight. That happened, and then COVID just sort of quieted and gave us some … It almost was like, at first, we all just had this pause, this great pause. I thought, “Oh, man. We’re going to read, and we’re going to do a lot of things while we’re waiting for this to blow over.” I think, at first, creatively I thought I was ambitious about thinking I was going to read, and write, and do all these things. Then your brain gets a little foggy, right?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
It’s hard to maintain that concentration when there’s just a lot of disruption, so I think my answer would be both. It has both helped make some creative space, or brings things to attention that you hadn’t noticed before, and then it also is challenging because you don’t have the normal rhythms that you can lean on to exercise your creativity. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
You just don’t have time alone, and you don’t have the normal workout schedule, or whatever the other things are. It’s all a little bit up in the air.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, yeah. For sure. So, as people will have already heard in your introduction, you’re a singer, songwriter, and modern day hymn writer. How did you first get started?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, I loved music. I loved listening to music on our family record player when I was a kid. All my brothers and sister listened to music, so it kind of happened by accident, I think. I wrote in a journal a lot when I was really young, and then journaling became songwriting by the time I was a young teenager. It was just a mode of self expression. I thought I’d probably be a teacher or do something else for a job, but music just continued to develop as both a creative outlet, and also I think I just invested a lot of time in it. So, by the time I went through college, or went to college and studied music, and then came through college, it was like taking those steps toward it just happened very gradually that I ended up becoming a singer songwriter from a living.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. That’s awesome. Were there other singer songwriters in your family?

Sandra McCracken:
No, no other professional musicians. I mean, a few of my family members are great singers, too, but they just sing around the house. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things, I was reading some of your blog posts and articles with Christianity Today to kind of prepare for this interview. One of the things you mentioned is how people give gifts that the giver might not realize what that gift means to the recipient, or how that gift helps them. That made me think about Mr. Rogers when he received an award, and how he invited everybody in the audience to think of one person or several people who had been influential in their lives. I wanted to ask you, can you think of someone who has given you a gift that they might not have realized was so meaningful and impactful to you, and helped you on your journey?

Sandra McCracken:
That’s a great question. I would say there are … a few people come to mind. I love that question and the moment when Mr. Rogers just continues to point people outward toward each other, toward one another and community.

Heidi Wilcox:
Right?

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah. In a way, it’s so counter cultural, right? All of our practice on social media is like, “Look at me!” You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
Fred Rogers is like, “Look at who has poured into you.” There are so many people that come to mind. One is at the top of my list. Would be my friend, Andy Ashworth. She’s a friend. She wrote a book called Real Love for Real Life. You get a good sense of who she is through that book. We’ve just spent consistent time together since I moved to Nashville and I was away from family. We developed a friendship. She has really mentored and taught me about everything from writing letters to how to steam broccoli and roast a chicken. I mean, just the whole range of human life and being able to share that with her and her family over the years has been a real gift to me. I think about the way she’s poured into me in conversation and intentional time. I hope to do that for others as well, because it’s been really meaningful to me.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely. One of the things that you’ve also talked about is how being in the word comes out in the work that you do, or that we all do. I found that really meaningful, because it made me think. I mean, sometimes I feel like I just get up in the morning, and I come to work. It kind of made me start thinking about how my own spiritual journey comes out in the work that I do. I was curious about what parts of your faith and spiritual journey were reflected in the songs that you write.

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah, it’s interesting. I don’t know that I was aware of it. I can see it as I look back, but Hebrews 4 talks about the word of God being living and active, and compares it to a sword. I think about sometimes, scripture, it brings comfort. Sometimes it brings conviction. It can do all kinds of different things, but it’s not a passive book on the table. There’s something different about the words of scripture because they are the word of God, and they are alive, that when we memorize them, or spend time with them, or write them down, or refer to them … You know, there’s a place in Deuteronomy 6 that talks about, “Write these promises. Write these words over on the walls of your house, and talk about them on the road. Teach them to your children.” There’s a sense that the word is made to be a living part of our language, even if it’s not just structured. It becomes part of us. I think, for me, that has certainly been the case. If I were in a different vocation, I think it would come out in a different way. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
You kind of see it more in songs. You have references to both scripture and hymns all over my songs, even the ones that aren’t really about … They’re not really church songs, necessarily. That’s kind of a long answer to say that it can be a simple thing, like the practice of writing a short passage and just meditating on the words and writing it every morning before you go to work, or listening to something in your car and just connecting to those words can be so fruitful. It can bear fruit in times you don’t even expect.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. It’s amazing. What you’ve listened to comes back to you when you need it. I’ve found, for me, even when I didn’t intend to memorize something, it’s just kind of there. I think the Lord just brings that to mind.

Sandra McCracken:
For sure. It is something I’ve seen over and over as well. That’s well said.

Heidi Wilcox:
What is your songwriting process like? Because you started out. You said you journaled. Is it still kind of like that?

Sandra McCracken:
It is. I started out journaling, and then kind of the journals were sometimes prayer, or sometimes they were just reflective. I still do that, and songs emerge a lot of times out of writing and reflection. I have noticed, because I love being around people, and I am around people a lot, that it helps if I have a little solitude to reflect and to hear those quieter undertones that are hard to hear when everybody’s around, and when there’s a lot going on. Silence and quiet, or just finding a spot to bring my guitar and sit in a corner somewhere, that really helps. It helps the creative process.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. We talked about COVID when we first started out. I think everybody has talked about COVID probably ad nauseam at this point in our time dealing with it. One of the things, in His Eyes on the Sparrow, it talks about singing because we’re happy, singing because we’re free. But we also go through difficult times of transition that are disorienting. How do we keep worshiping during those times?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, it’s a good question, I guess. How do we do it? I don’t know. I think recognizing that it’s not a checklist, but that it is something that actually nourishes us to continue to go there. In the times of disorientation when we are trying to get our bearings, and something seems new or unfamiliar, a lot of the things we have relied on up to that point are not working for us. That’s why we’re uncomfortable. It can actually be an opportunity to go back to those things we know to be true, even when we don’t feel like it.

Sandra McCracken:
How we do it can be a discipline. It can be a practice or making some habits around going back to the truth and to the scripture. I would say, in our discomfort, that it is really a call and an invitation to come and know that the presence of God is with us at all times and in all those changes.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How has worshiping changed for you during this time?

Sandra McCracken:
There’s less solitude, just by nature of everyone being home more often. You know? I’m in a family.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
We have five of us in the house together.

Heidi Wilcox:
Oh, wow.

Sandra McCracken:
That’s changed, I think, a lot for a lot of us, worship. A Sunday worship service is either virtual, or limited, or with masks. I do miss singing together. That change, for me, has made me really long for that, and to realize how important that part is, of not just saying what we believe, but singing it in a way that’s more embodied. I definitely miss that.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. Yeah. I like how you differentiated between worship at home, and then … Some people worship on Saturday, Sunday, whatever, but the corporate worship. I guess that leads me to ask, what does worship mean to you? How do you define that?

Sandra McCracken:
Worship is essentially turning from everything else back toward the beauty of who God is, and then allowing his beauty to realign and reorient you to everything else. Calvin and Francis Schaeffer, a lot of theologians have talked about how we are made for worship, so we are worshipers. If you’re not worshiping God, you’re worshiping something else. I think, when I think about biblical or Christian worship, it’s turning from the other things, the shallow springs, to the deep waters, to the living waters, and turning from these small kind of idols that we prop up, that we look to for life, and turning back to God’s provision for us that is sufficient. It is a pivot, and sometimes that pivot brings a lot of affection. Sometimes you just have all the feels. Right? Where you’re like, “I believe this right now.” Other times, it’s just a pivot. You’re saying, “Yes. I will confess this even if I don’t feel like it right now,” so it’s kind of both.

Sandra McCracken:
Okay, you remember the scene in Forrest Gump when he is a little boy, and his legs are basically growing at irregular times. At one point, he’s been wearing these braces on his legs, and at one point he just starts running. The braces, the bolts burst out and he starts running, and just runs all the way home. That scene is so stunning. It stays with me, because I think that’s worship, in a sense. All the things that we’re doing in worship, when we have a call to worship, and we have the prelude, and we have these different things. They’re the structure that we put around it, but worship is the actual running … It’s just, yes, we need this stuff to grow in the way that God has designed us to grow. Yet, that design is for us to run and to experience the wind in our face, and the pleasure of God as we do so.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely. I really like the idea, at least I think you’re saying this, of we worship God as a body on Sunday, or whenever we gather together. I like the idea of taking worship with us throughout the week. What can that look like? I guess I’m asking, because for a long time I just thought, “Oh, this is what I do on Sunday.” It was only maybe a year or so ago I started thinking about, “Oh, worship is something that I do in my work, or that I do when I’m with my friends,” or whatever. What can that look like?

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah. I hear what you’re saying. I think I remember, when I was at school and away from the church I was in with my parents and my family. I began to understand what faith meant on my own, and what it meant. I think that was the first time I really understood that it is part of our whole lives, and not just a part of this one way or this one practice of shared worship together on Sundays. I think both are really important.

Sandra McCracken:
For all of us, it’s different. We go through different stages where we’re learning things about God, and how he meets us, and what it means to worship him and to give our lives to him. Romans 12, the first verses of that chapter talk about offering our bodies as living sacrifices. This is our spiritual act of worship, which says to me that, when we’re sent out of those doors at the end of a church service … like you’re saying, whether that’s Saturday or Sunday. When we’re sent out, we are commissioned to go and to be the living sacrifices out in the world, that we’re not meant to just be cloistered, and never engaging or doing anything else, but that we aren’t meant to go out and do, and to engage with God’s world in redemptive ways, wherever God places us.

Heidi Wilcox:
So, I want to shift gears a little bit, if I could, and talk about your recently released album, Patient Kingdom. What was it like to create, record, and release an album in 2020?

Sandra McCracken:
It felt triumphant to really finish something last year. You know? Still, when I look back, we didn’t get to make the album the way we thought we were going to make it. I would’ve loved if we could be in the same room together. The musicians that were part of the project were all in different states, and some of them had higher risks, as far as health and their ability to travel. We couldn’t be in the same room, but we were able to record and connect long distance, and learned so much about how to do that. I think the end result is that it still sounds like we were in the room together.

Heidi Wilcox:
It definitely does.

Sandra McCracken:
Thank you. I think that’s what’s kind of a marvel. I was really sad about it at first, because I just felt frustrated by having to run my own microphone sometimes. You forget how to use some of this. You know? I was doing my own engineering for my part of it, and that was so frustrating. There were some times I would just take my head in my hands. You know? I was just like, “Man, this is not the normal way of doing this, or the way I’m used to.” Yet it still produced something that I’m really proud of. I don’t think it’s lacking because we weren’t in the same space. It just has some different qualities, and even some surprises that we wouldn’t have had otherwise.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I love your album. Did COVID affect any of the songs that you put in it?

Sandra McCracken:
Thank you so much. Yes, it did. Actually, the title track, Patient Kingdom, was a song that I had written a few years prior. I just came across the demo while we were working on the album. I thought, “Oh, man.” It seemed like the whole theme song was so captured by just that song title. That one had already been written, but was not originally in this batch of songs. Then a few others were written during the time when we were all in separate places. One of those is On High Places. I wrote that-

Heidi Wilcox:
I wondered about that, because I was like, “This sounds a lot like 2020.”

Sandra McCracken:
It was. It was right in the middle of that, and it was a song. I wrote it with Leslie and Christa, Leslie Jordan and Christa Wells. We were on a FaceTime call … kids and family all in the background. That beautiful song just emerged out of that collaboration. I know them very well, so it was even a sweeter thing to have this point of connection. That felt like that’s its own gift is the experience of writing it together, and then having the song that fits so well on the album.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, like I said … When Dr. Powers told me you were coming, and opened up the door for this interview to happen, I was really excited. I’m embarrassed to say I hadn’t heard any of your music before, but being introduced to you and your music, I have fallen in love with it. I truly mean that. It is beautiful. I feel like your songs like On High Places, or the other one that really stood out to me on your album was You Are the Word. They’re just beautiful. I feel like you just gave words for feelings that I’ve had that I didn’t know I had, but you also very gently guided me back to the truth. If we could, could we talk a little bit about the song You Are the Word? Why did you write that, and can you tell me the story behind that?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, thank you for kind of opening that vulnerability. I think we’ve all been asking some harder questions during this disruption, and we all have experienced it in different ways, but also this is such a shared experience. This song, You Are the Word, was written right before. I mean, it was in the same timeframe, but a little bit before things were closed down. I wrote it with my friend Phil Madeira. I think we just had a really meaningful conversation as we were working on this song, just around asking these questions. I think, without trying to explain the song too much, I would say it’s engaging with this idea of John 1, where God … In the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. Just the fullness of this idea that God is the word. He is the promise. He is the provider, so he is present with us in all of this.

Sandra McCracken:
We can bring our questions there. The verses are pretty heavy with questions. I had lost a friend just the year prior to a car accident in South Africa. It was so unexpected, and I think her memory is embedded in that song. There was some connection, even with her husband, as we were working on the song. I mean, just a lot of threads in there that helped me to be able to ask those questions to God and say, “I don’t know the answers to these things, but I know you are the word,” so I can bring the questions and it’s safe to do so, because he is the ultimate keeper of the promise. Right? He’s the one that holds that.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
He is the word. He gives us the word, and then he also is the word. Even in those unanswered questions, that we will one day know that in full.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How do you hear the word? How do you hear God’s voice to you?

Sandra McCracken:
I love that question. Sometimes I hear an echo of it in other things, so in creation, or in a song, or in a conversation with a friend. Something very tangible in those ways. Then other times I hear it. This is newer for me. I didn’t grow up understanding or having a practice of this, but when I read scripture, and when I sit in quiet reflection, I have learned more to hear, and to listen, and to not just study the Bible, but to sit and to wait to let the Lord speak in those places of quiet. It’s not an audible voice, but there is something familiar that I start to hear when I know it’s John 10, when it’s the voice of the shepherd, is really different than the voice of the deceiver. You start to identify the tone of his voice, and the kindness of it, and the strength of it. Then it helps me to differentiate between his voice and all the other competing voices, and lies, and self doubt, and shame, and all the other things that would kind of argue back. Right?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
I think that a practice of learning to just be still and to identify when it’s this kind of tone, I know and I believe that it’s the spirit of God that’s testifying to the promises that are true.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. I really like how hearing these stories lets us see a little bit of your own faith journey, and what you’re learning about God, what you’re seeking from him. I think, as we listen, that gives us all hope as well.

Sandra McCracken:
I’m so glad.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How was releasing an album? I mean, obviously it’s different now than probably it would’ve been in 2019. How is it different now? Because I’m assuming you’d be on tours right now, right?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, that’s true … It’s hard to know how people are connecting with an album when it goes out almost entirely digital. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
You could get an email, or you could get a reply, or a personal message from someone, but I haven’t had that experience of playing them in person very much yet, these new songs. I know that day will come. That will be great, but I think for now it’s almost like when seeds are planted underground and you haven’t seen them sprout. You know it’s winter. You know that they’re under there, and that it’s going to do, but the germination, the quiet and the darkness of that, it seems like darkness, but actually it’s really doing some hard work of nourishing the soil. I think, for me, these songs are still kind of nourishing me and teaching me. Then, at some point, if they’re above ground and we can see the whole flower, that’ll be really wonderful to celebrate that, too.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. How you describe this time right now kind of reminds me of the title of your album, Patient Kingdom. Why did you choose to call it Patient Kingdom?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, that image of the song was based on … The song was written with a couple of friends, a guy named Gareth Davies Jones and Sarah Mason. We were sitting on a porch in Vermont a few summers ago, and we were watching a hummingbird and looking out over this beautiful farm where we were staying. We were talking about the call of creation and how sometimes things move slowly and they move in ways that we don’t understand, and yet God is at work even if it’s one mile an hour.

Sandra McCracken:
We were watching this hummingbird, and we were talking about how the hummingbird is moving. The wings are moving really fast. They can up to like 80 beats per second. Then the center of the bird is so still, and I put that. I mean, that’s in the lyric. There’s just this paradox that both are happening at the same time, so we are working hard. We are moving. We are active and participating in our faith and in the work that God’s given us to do. Also, there’s the stillness, and the peace, and the sense of being held in position when our core is secure. That little bird just really sparked this idea, and looking out over the scene of the landscape, thinking about how creation really inspires us and calls us to patience in a way that God is ushering in his kingdom, but much slower than we expect sometimes.

Heidi Wilcox:
And much slower than we would like sometimes, too. Yeah. What did you personally learn about God as you wrote the songs in this album?

Sandra McCracken:
In addition to some of the things we’ve shared, these songs were … I set out to write this album a few years before the pandemic. I had been traveling and talking with people, and a lot of our conversations … There was just a theme in conversation that kept going back to anxiety, and what it is to respond, to give comfort, to speak words of comfort, to sing comfort over and against anxiety. I think that was really the main thrust of this creative project was to put together a batch of songs that would help us to do that, and then overlay that with all the circumstances that unfolded during the time of making it. It just felt even more … kind of prophetic with a small P. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
It’s something we hadn’t intended, but really timely.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, because anxiety has … I mean, I struggle with being anxious sometimes, and we all do, but I think especially now there’s even more of us that, if it wasn’t as difficult a struggle for us, then it’s an even greater struggle considering everything that’s happened with the pandemic and everything.

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah. I think so, too. Have you found that that’s more difficult or less? Is anxiety more prevalent?

Heidi Wilcox:
I don’t know about everybody else, but I think, for me, I don’t know. Maybe I was just busier, so it hid itself more. You know?

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah.

Heidi Wilcox:
I can go out and do things, and not-

Sandra McCracken:
Right.

Heidi Wilcox:
Face it. Then there was nothing to do, so I was like, “I’ll come out of this a different person.” I still hope to do that. I don’t see that in my life so much right now, but I hope that that is the case, and I’m taking steps for that to be the case, because I don’t want that to have the control over me that it does. What I’m finding is, and I’ve heard other people say, too, is some things were stripped away in 2020. A lot of things were, but we, and I know I did this, found other crutches to fill that gap, and other ways to “medicate” ourselves.

Heidi Wilcox:
Me, I’m buying things online. Not maxing out credit cards. I’m just like, “Oh, yeah. We can do that. We’re not going anywhere.” I’m like, “What are you doing?”

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah, I can completely relate to that. I think that’s part of what’s been exposed. It’s God’s mercy that we would see it, but man it’s uncomfortable.

Heidi Wilcox:
It is.

Sandra McCracken:
Having those old go to things removed, then all of a sudden we’re having to confront those questions.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, your album definitely speaks, at least to me. It spoke truth to the fear that I’ve faced a lot in my life, and I’m really grateful for your work.

Sandra McCracken:
I’m so thankful, Heidi. That’s really an encouragement to me, too.

Heidi Wilcox:
So, some of your songs have been selling in corporate worship pretty regularly, like We Will Feast in the House of Zion, Steadfast, and Thy Mercy my God. There may be others, but those are the ones that I’ve found. Do you write with corporate worship in mind for these particular songs, or does that just kind of happen?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, interesting, the ones you mentioned were not intentionally written for corporate worship, but those two were pretty personal reflections at the time. Then, at other times, I have tried to be really intentional. Zoomed out, I’ve really, over time, made more and more of an effort of trying to write songs that are singable, and that are singable in a way that it doesn’t have to be my voice or my style of singing, but that they could translate to a lot of different contexts. I think, in some ways, that’s been a really good practice. There’s always more to learn.

Sandra McCracken:
It’s like the old tradition of folk music where songs were meant to be shared. They were meant to be sung together, and at home, and in the car, and on the back porch, and wherever. You know?

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sandra McCracken:
That would be my intention, is to keep writing and thinking about that and how to do that well.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. We’ve talked about my next question in bits and pieces just in our conversation. When people listen to this album, Patient Kingdom, what do you hope they take away from their experience?

Sandra McCracken:
Somebody recently outlined just the song titles and the order of the songs. The album ends with Be Still My Soul, the traditional hymn melody … My hope would be that it would point on this trajectory toward peace, but somebody was saying when they outline these songs, they look like a five point sermon. You know? It followed this plan of leading you through hearing the message of grace. I guess that would be my hope is that it might meet you once place or another. I don’t know if even people listen to albums in order anymore. I don’t know that I do. Sometimes it’s just jumping around, or it’s a playlist, or it’s on shuffle. My hope would be that, no matter which sequence or which song, each one would be a conduit for God’s comfort to our hearts, that we would believe it and be brought back to truth.

Heidi Wilcox:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, for sure. What are you working on next?

Sandra McCracken:
Well, I’m finishing up work on my first book, which was just the craziest timing that this was in motion. Then I had time at home this year to work on that. It’s a very new experience for me. I think I’m most comfortable in three minute songs. Right?

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
Music. So, trying to express some of the same thoughts and ideas, but with 50,000 words. It’s like, wow. This is really new for me. I’m getting close on that. It’s starting to come into view, and it’s supposed to come out in September of ’21, so it’s just around the corner now. It’s called Send Out Your Light.

Heidi Wilcox:
That is awesome. What is it about?

Sandra McCracken:
It actually covers some of the things we’re talking about today, but the subtitle would be the illumination of scripture and song, so song lyrics and scripture, and kind of how all that bleeds in together in my work and in my life. It has some stories, and some song lyrics, and some kind of devotional ideas. It probably fits kind of between the lines of all those categories, as far as what kind of book it is. I don’t know.

Heidi Wilcox:
It sounds beautiful. I can check this out myself, but is it available for pre order right now?

Sandra McCracken:
Not yet.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay. All right. Well-

Sandra McCracken:
It could be soon. We’ll send word to you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Okay, yeah.

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah, I would love that. Thank you.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. We’ll be looking for it, because that’s very exciting, especially. Any book is exciting. I’ve never written one, but I would imagine especially your first one is really exciting.

Sandra McCracken:
Yeah. I think a lot of people have talked this year about doing new things, trying things for the first time, and how uncomfortable that is. It’s also such a great exercise, because you feel so out of your element. It’s really humbling to just not know what you’re doing. We picked up tennis not long ago as a family. I’m so bad at tennis, but I love getting out there and running around, because it’s another opportunity to just try something that I’m not good at, but that I can learn stuff. You know? Learn something.

Heidi Wilcox:
Wow. Yeah. That’s interesting, because I feel like, for me, I shy away from things that I’m not good, or if I’m not good at it the first time, I’m like, “Well, I’m going to move on to something else.” What have you found to be the value of perseverance? It seems like, with tennis, you’re like, “I just enjoy this. I’m really bad at it.”

Sandra McCracken:
Well, it’s fun. We should play tennis next time [inaudible 00:37:37]. I don’t know if it’s fun for anyone that would play with me, but I think that there is a freedom that comes when you see these things we’ve been talking about play out. There’s a confidence that comes and a freedom to fail. If you’re not great at something, as you begin to believe that God is for you, and as you begin to hear his voice, I do think one of the implications is that you just start feeling more free to try things, and free to be who you are. Man, if that’s one of the byproducts of the songs, that would be a bonus. Right? I think that’s how I’m experiencing some of it, too. I probably won’t ever be good at tennis, but it does give me courage to keep trying new things.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. I don’t know if this question will make it into the podcast, but did you ever fail at songwriting? It seems easy for you. Was it always easy for you?

Sandra McCracken:
Oh, man. My first songs were terrible … I hope it makes it in the podcast, because that’s a great question, and something we all can understand that, hey, you got to start somewhere. You keep at it, and you keep learning. In the learning, there’s the self discovery, and there’s the joy of collaborating with other people, and learning from people that are better at something than you are. Whether that’s an instrument or playing guitar, for me.

Sandra McCracken:
A lot of my early songs, and even some of the songs that are still up on … I’ve had a lot albums out. It started when I was just out of college. Some of those songs, I’m like, “Man, I would probably write that song really differently now,” but they’re out there. It’s a good question, just as a good reminder that I’ve failed at a lot of things.

Heidi Wilcox:
Well, haven’t we all? So, we’ve talked about some of my favorite songs that you’ve written, but what is some of your … What is one? I’m sure you have several. What is one of your favorite songs from your album? You have albums, but I’m thinking about the most recent one.

Sandra McCracken:
One of the songs I enjoy more and more every time, from Patient Kingdom, is the song called You Are the Word. I think I like it because it’s more abstract, so when I listen to it, some of the inflection will just hit me in a different way on different days. If I’m playing it … I haven’t been on tour or anything, but when there’s a point of connection, even if it’s playing for a group on a Zoom call. When I’ve played that song, it’s really stirring, because I feel like it leaves a lot of space for people to have different experiences of what those words might mean. I like abstract songs for that reason. They’re the ones that keep me coming back.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah, definitely. Well, we have talked about a lot of things in our conversation. We have one question that we ask everybody before we wrap up the show. Before we do that, is there anything else you’d like to talk about that I didn’t know to ask?

Sandra McCracken:
No. This was good. We covered a lot of ground.

Heidi Wilcox:
We did. Thank you. So, here’s our one question that we ask everybody. Because the show is called the Thrive with Asbury Seminary Podcast, what is one practice that is helping you thrive in your life right now?

Sandra McCracken:
One thing that helps me thrive is having … This is not some spiritually deep answer, but I really love having a good cup of tea. I love it. I love it a certain way. The water’s got to be just hot enough, and the right kind of tea, and the right kind of mug. I think things like that, those little rituals that are the same every day, can really help me to remember what day it is, and have a good start.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. One of the things I’ve been working on as a practice in my life is getting up so that I can have coffee at home before I run out the door in the morning. That is a huge … if I have my coffee … I mean, I always have my coffee, but having it at home versus having it in a to go mug just brings so much peace to my heart, so I appreciate that.

Sandra McCracken:
I love that. That’s a really good answer. I’m glad to know-

Heidi Wilcox:
Well, go ahead.

Sandra McCracken:
I’m glad to know that. We sometimes talk about just the theology and the big picture parts of what we’re doing, but the small things really matter, too.

Heidi Wilcox:
They do. Yeah, they definitely do. Well, Sandra, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today, and being part of our podcast.

Sandra McCracken:
Thank you so much, Heidi. It’s good to be with you. I’m looking forward to being on campus very soon.

Heidi Wilcox:
Yes. We’re looking forward to having you … Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for today’s conversation with Sandra. Isn’t she just the best, you all? Her music and work are such a gift to each of us, giving us words to express our thoughts and feelings, and to pray when we might not have them. If you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to let her know. Tag her on social media at @SandraMcCracken, and tell her thanks for being part of today’s episode. As always, you can follow us in all the places on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at @AsburySeminary. Until next time, go do something that helps you thrive.